Do what I say , not what I do

[Spartacus Maximus]

Observing and emulating the instructors techniques is one of the classical ways of learning karate. This works very well but students often forget that listening and applying the concepts that are explained. This is especially true if the instructor is past his prime.

The instructor may be a phenomenally skilled expert, but students should realize that age forces him to do things a certain way. Slight variation in stances while executing a kata for example. Students don't often consider this and try to emulate exactly what they see because they are convinced the way the instructor does it is perfect.

It is not stressed enough in most dojos that doing what the instructor says is sometimes more important than trying to do it exactly the way he does it. I have only heard this twice since I became involved in karate at age 10.

Just recently, my instructor stressed that he has adapted his techniques and kata to fit his age and other physical attributes. His main point was that students should follow technical instructions and explanations more than trying to just copy the way he does. If a 20 year old student just apes his 70 year old instructor he would be doing old man karate. In other words that student would not be doing karate to his full potential. It is best to listen and try to apply what your instructor says. Once students acquire the correct way to execute a technique, they should aim to adapt it to their own physical traits.

A great example of "Do what I say and not what I do".

Too often student forget that a master or expert is not someone with perfect performance. An expert or master is one who has a level of understanding that allows him to adapt techniques to his own age and physical condition without compromising effectiveness.

[Harkon72]

In my book, a master should be the best in his tradition at what he teaches, he must be able to perform every technique he asks his students to do, or retire. I know of one so called "Kyoshi" who cant do almost any of his young Dan grades' techniques. He may have been able 20 years ago, but not now. I've no problem with over weight martial artists, most have the skill to adapt, but this guy claims to be an 8th Dan but would struggle to break into a jog. If he turned up to grade me, I would walk out.

[DWx]

In my book, a master should be the best in his tradition at what he teaches, he must be able to perform every technique he asks his students to do, or retire. I know of one so called "Kyoshi" who cant do almost any of his young Dan grades' techniques. He may have been able 20 years ago, but not now. I've no problem with over weight martial artists, most have the skill to adapt, but this guy claims to be an 8th Dan but would struggle to break into a jog. If he turned up to grade me, I would walk out.

So you would not still learn from his knowledge or experience? There may be many reasons he is physically not able to do something but that doesn't mean his knowledge has been eroded. I've known martial artists with knee problems, with back problems, heck, my own instructor is due a hip replacement in the near future. All these things can place limitations on what they can physically do. I've not seen my instructor kick or even do tul (our kata) in months but that doesn't change that fact that he is one of the best technicians on the UK TKD scene.

Personally I do say to people "do what I say and not what I do" in multiple situations. Firstly I have never been gifted with good flexibility so my range of motion in my hips is limited. I've had to adapt my kicks to suit. Doesn't mean I don't understand how to kick properly or how to instruct somebody with good flexibility to do so.

Sometimes I also say this when the student is a different body type or build or age etc. I'm a mid-twenties, 5' 10" heavyweight. I do not expect a lightweight teen or a 5' 0" elder to move or fight like do. Doesn't preclude me from understanding how they should be moving though.

[Harkon72]

Maybe the attitude that I have is a little harsh, but, I was trained by ex military men; and if they could not show me what the technique was themselves, they would not ask me to do it. My Father was a trainer in the Army, a Malayan Scout NCO. He told me "Never expect a person to do something you cant or wont do yourself." I think it's a sound principal. I know there are specialists, everyone is different, but you can't sit there and call technique that you have no experience of yourself or maybe not for many years. With age, our bodies change, but still if you hold a rank, you must be able to hold your own.

[Wastelander]

Harkon72, I would say that it isn't just harsh--it's rather short-sighted. If you truly believe that, then you are going to miss out on a vast wealth of knowledge. Following that line of thinking, one must believe that Freddie Roach should have retired the moment he was diagnosed with Parkinson's, because he couldn't properly demonstrate because of the shaking. Cus D'amato never should have trained Mike Tyson, because he was out of shape and old. Chibana Chosin should have given up his rank and stopped teaching when he was diagnosed with cancer that caused him immense pain and sapped his strength.

Besides, you may someday be the elderly, injured, out-of-shape one with lots of knowledge and experience, but without the body to demonstrate it. How would it make you feel to have all your years of dedication considered irrelevant by people you are teaching? Do you really think you wouldn't be able to help them improve, just because you can't physically do everything, anymore? There are a good number of teachers who have taught students that went on to greatness, even though the teachers, themselves, were unable to do so.

[Harkon72]

I can see your point, but I was led by example. I do recognise that masters get old and infirm, but they become elders who you go to for council. They may have the knowledge, but they advise, they do not instruct directly. The world is full of people who command respect from warriors when they have no idea what it is to fight. World leaders are moving units all over the globe like chess pieces while talking of "Acceptable Levels of Casualties." The retired fighter has much respect, but he doesn't grade the students, his rank is his but his status is as I said, retired. I asked one of the Dan grades "Who grades you? Who would grade me if I joined your Dojo." "Kyoshi." She said, while pointing to a picture of a huge man with a broad smile. If so, I thought, I could call any Dan grade present at that grading to spar with! I quickly chased the thought from my mind.

[Lupin1]

Idk. I think if it more like coaching. You wouldn't expect Bill Belichick to get out on the field at his age without getting himself killed, but that doesn't mean he can't mold some of the greatest players in the game. Think of the gruff old boxing coach screaming at his young athlete from the corner of the ring or the old gymnastics coach on the sidelines in his windbreaker or the ballet mistress correcting her dancers from the piano. None of them would ever be expected to best their top athletes as they are now, but they're respected for their knowledge and experience and, even though they're no longer out on the court or stage or field every day, they play a role that's vital to their sport or art.

[Harkon72]

Oh yes, I remember the days of the collage rugby field, January, blowing a gale with stinging sleet and hail, shivering in thin jerseys while the coach screamed at us from the side line in his Arran jumper, thermal leggings, padded touch line coat, wax hat and fur lined wellies! Oh yes, them were the days! My Sensei lets you attack him as hard as you want, he also lets us perform the techniques on him too, his tai sabaki is as good as any. I know many schools don't allow their students to use their Sensei as Uke, but David is humble and gets up as fast as you throw him.

[DWx]

I can see your point, but I was led by example. I do recognise that masters get old and infirm, but they become elders who you go to for council. They may have the knowledge, but they advise, they do not instruct directly. The world is full of people who command respect from warriors when they have no idea what it is to fight. World leaders are moving units all over the globe like chess pieces while talking of "Acceptable Levels of Casualties." The retired fighter has much respect, but he doesn't grade the students, his rank is his but his status is as I said, retired. I asked one of the Dan grades "Who grades you? Who would grade me if I joined your Dojo." "Kyoshi." She said, while pointing to a picture of a huge man with a broad smile. If so, I thought, I could call any Dan grade present at that grading to spar with! I quickly chased the thought from my mind.

IMHO this impedes progression. Whatever field you are studying, be it science, maths, or martial arts, you learn from your predecessors and build upon their knowledge. Else you just repeat what they had to discover and never go on to anything new.

You honestly would prefer an instructor who is still fit in his mid 30s say over someone in their 60s or 70s who had trained twice as long and had done things Mr Young & Fit could only dream about?

[DWx]

Oh yes, I remember the days of the collage rugby field, January, blowing a gale with stinging sleet and hail, shivering in thin jerseys while the coach screamed at us from the side line in his Arran jumper, thermal leggings, padded touch line coat, wax hat and fur lined wellies! Oh yes, them were the days! My Sensei lets you attack him as hard as you want, he also lets us perform the techniques on him too, his tai sabaki is as good as any. I know many schools don't allow their students to use their Sensei as Uke, but David is humble and gets up as fast as you throw him.

Sorry but what happens when your sensei slows down and stops being able to be thrown around and throw others? Will you tell him that sorry he can't be your teacher any longer and you're moving on to better things?