Where should you spend your time in class?

[ShoriKid]

Okay, not the best subject title I've have come up with, but it's what you get today. Now, what I am specifically asking about are exercises in class. Drills, partner work and skill acquisition/refinement should occupy the majority of your training time in class. That isn't in dispute. You should also work to build and keep a level of base conditioning/attributes. This also isn't in dispute. What I am asking is when it comes to conditioning during class time, where should you spend your time? Should you be building a general level of strength and conditioning, or focusing on specific strength/conditioning drills? I don't want to box this in too tightly, and put my thumb on the scale of the discussion, so will try to lay out pros/cons for each.

General conditioning: Building an over all level of cardio conditioning/strength in the student.

Basic lifts (dead lifting, clean & press, pull ups/push ups), Basic cardio work(sprints, jumping rope, road work), Basic core conditioning (medicine ball work, sit ups/crunches etc)

The benefit of using class time here would be in building attributes that would translate to most or all of the skills used in the martial art you are training for. You teach the student what they need to be strong at in general and hopefully they will do these things outside of class too. You get to build the student's body up to have a general performance capability for your over all program.

The down side is that it is time consuming. Training time is limited. Usually the old, the more limited that time is. Married people have less time than singles, parents even less than that. Time spent conditioning is time not spent on skill development. The specific abilities you need that student to develop will have to be brought up or refine to accomplish the technique needed.

Sport/Skill specific conditioning: Building specific types of strength/conditioning that relate to the activity at hand.

Use of drills for conditioning. Pummeling drills, hit and sprawl, mitt/pad work for conditioning on the clock at high intensity. Resistance in hands on drills specifically to create higher work requirements.

The upside is that the time spent on this conditioning translates into the specific skills needed in that art. Your students will be strong where you expect them to be strong. Conditioned to a skill and pace that they are going to need to learn. Some skill transfer should be taking place.

The down side is that there is more time in setting up the drills. Setting up a mitt drill, or knees on pads, and getting everyone time to do it takes more class time up than having everyone do push ups and burpies. You have to demo the skill/drill whereas with most general conditioning drills you can name/show what needs to be done in a second. And, you usually are only going to have to run one set of rounds/drills to catch everyone. There can be weak links in your conditioning/strength. Outside of the specifics you have built up, your students could end up with holes in their physical abilities because there are only so many drills you can run over time.

So, where do you stand, what does your class do? Do you mix the two or not spend any conditioning time in class at all? Is it all on the student to be in shape for class? This question got into my head a couple of weeks ago after training with a different school/gym. Their approach was very different to ours (usually) and I was told that was the norm for almost all classes. It was a lot of general conditioning, with only 6 skill using stations out of an hour and forty minute training session. I fully believe that if I trained with this gym a couple of times a week I would be in better over all condition than I am now. However, I don't not think I would get the same boost in ability to use my martial skill if I spent the same amount of time on skill specific conditioning. There will be a benefit that I would expect to see from general attribute development. I know that box jumping will improve my kicking power/speed (if I don't die falling off the box), however would hitting the bag and shields with a focus purely on power and speed achieve the same gains? Or less, or more?

[Lupin1]

With the kids we do stretching and conditioning exercises for the first 15 minutes or so of class. For adults it's all on us. We don't even stretch-- you come in a bit before class starts and stretch/warm up off to the side while the kids class is finishing up and then we usually start with a few kata to warm up. For conditioning-- a few of us spend a lot of time outside of class at the gym/exercise and a few of don't spend any. The people who come to our class don't really come for the exercise.

[sensei8]

The one thing I refuse to do, is....

Babysit my students, both kids and adults alike!! If they decide to not practice, then that's on them. If they decide to not condition themselves, then that's on them. If they decide to not exercise, then that's on them.

I'm also not going to lose any sleep over it either.

This, which I'm speaking towards is if they're not going to do anything to increase their own MA betterment on their own!! Well, that's on them!!

However, when a student steps upon my floor, well, that's a different thing all together; I will challenge my students, thusly, myself as a side note, without reservation and/or ambiguity whatsoever...kids and adults alike!!

A typical class will consist of:

5 minutes of limbering up

10 minutes of wind and reaction-time exercises

1 - 2 and 1/2 hours of Shindokan techniques

10 minutes of strengthening exercises

5 minutes of limbering up

Limbering up is getting lose; we typically do about 14 different limbering up techniques, i.e., neck twisting, arm swings, leg lifts, and leg stretching.

Wind and reaction-time is a well known tactic...skipping jump rope. We'll usually do about 3 other tactics.

Strengthening exercises will comprise usually of rabbit-hopping and push-ups, to name just a few.

Students will go into our weight room, usually the adults, before and/or after their classes.

So, if my students have the mind to improve their MA betterment on their own, my hats off to them, and for those students who don't care to, well, that's fine too. My duty ends at the door; once they leave, they're on their own.

[yamesu]

Kyokushin is varied really, but lot of time is spent on conditioning, mainly through drilling techniques repeatedly.

I double you would meet many Kyokushin Yudansha who have not drilled tsuki and uke techniques 100,000's times.

It is generally used as a cardio endurance build while drilling techniques.

Also pure conditioning (getting hit), and kumite techniques are practiced regularly.

As well as kata and bunkai for self defence.

Id say its really an equal mix.

EDIT: Thinking about it, at general levels and for Kyu grades its mainly a focus on the technique drills, conditioning and kata/kumite.

The bunkai interpretation only really comes out at a senior Kyu or Yudansha grade.

[sensei8]

What I am asking is when it comes to conditioning during class time, where should you spend your time? Should you be building a general level of strength and conditioning, or focusing on specific strength/conditioning drills?

Both! General level of strength and conditioning are as equally important as it is to focusing on the specificity as well. Jumping jacks and push-ups are general levels, but isometric drills that target specific areas, like forearms and legs, are specific tools that are dependent with increasing ones MA betterment.

I know that box jumping will improve my kicking power/speed (if I don't die falling off the box), however would hitting the bag and shields with a focus purely on power and speed achieve the same gains? Or less, or more?

No...less!! I believe that these two separate drills work hand in hand with one another quite well because one can't be without the other. Specificity in targeting different things is how one addresses ones MA needs. Speed by itself isn't enough, and on the same hand, power by itself isn't enough either. Having them both available to and at the target are more desirable to a MAists betterment!!

Imho!!

[DWx]

Now I'm certainly no expert and do not have a current class, however my general rule of thumb has been to divide the class into thirds:

- one third fitness, strength and conditioning

- one third skill work

- one third review and putting the skills learnt into live training.

Each session has an overall lesson objective, be it sparring orientated or forms or self defense or whatever and I would try to match the fitness and strength component to the lesson. For a sparring class this could be a lot of fast burst pad drills and fast footwork, some explosive fitness (burpees and all that), then onto combination and drill work, then onto free sparring. For a lesson centered around forms the fitness might be something longer burn like a run round the field and some intensive stretching, followed by drilling the basics in lines to then going over a particular form in greater detail.

Similar to Lupin1, I would expect most students to do the majority of limbering and warmup prior to starting class. The exception being beginners and low colour belts who might not know how to stretch or warm the body up efficiently. With them I'd start with 10 mins or so light warm up first.

The other things is, I always think colour belts ought to have a higher intensity / cardio-centric fitness component with some basic strength thrown in. The goal being to raise that baseline of fitness to a functional level and get them fit whilst teaching them the basic concepts with an emphasis on how to move correctly rather than moving with speed and strength.

Advanced colour belts and blackbelt can then shift towards general strength (especially gymnastic strength) with the expectation they can maintain and improve cardio at home. They've ideally got the basic movement down so they can refine the movement and incorporate more strength and speed.

With all students though I think there is the understanding that class offers the bare minimum of fitness in order to get by so to excel they should incorporate more at home.

[bushido_man96]

Okay, not the best subject title I've have come up with, but it's what you get today. Now, what I am specifically asking about are exercises in class. Drills, partner work and skill acquisition/refinement should occupy the majority of your training time in class. That isn't in dispute. You should also work to build and keep a level of base conditioning/attributes. This also isn't in dispute. What I am asking is when it comes to conditioning during class time, where should you spend your time? Should you be building a general level of strength and conditioning, or focusing on specific strength/conditioning drills? I don't want to box this in too tightly, and put my thumb on the scale of the discussion, so will try to lay out pros/cons for each.

This is a great topic. I think this really comes down to the preference or experiences of the instructors that do the teaching.

General conditioning: Building an over all level of cardio conditioning/strength in the student.

Basic lifts (dead lifting, clean & press, pull ups/push ups), Basic cardio work(sprints, jumping rope, road work), Basic core conditioning (medicine ball work, sit ups/crunches etc)

The benefit of using class time here would be in building attributes that would translate to most or all of the skills used in the martial art you are training for. You teach the student what they need to be strong at in general and hopefully they will do these things outside of class too. You get to build the student's body up to have a general performance capability for your over all program.

The down side is that it is time consuming. Training time is limited. Usually the old, the more limited that time is. Married people have less time than singles, parents even less than that. Time spent conditioning is time not spent on skill development. The specific abilities you need that student to develop will have to be brought up or refine to accomplish the technique needed.

I am a fan of this kind of workout regimen. Especially the powerlifting style involving full body lifts like squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, and power cleans. If a program is built right, you only have to do these 3 days a week. That is, if you want to build the kind of strength that will benefit you in class.

The problem is, in order to get some good out of it, you have to dedicate the time to it. And that's too much time to include in a Martial Arts class. Sure, you can supplement body weight exercises instead, like squats, push-ups, burpees, etc, but you only build so much strength when you don't progressively add weight. But, you still benefit.

But, the biggest problem is the time they take. Especially cardio, if you want benefit from it. When I sign up for a Martial Arts class, I want to learn Martial Arts. I don't want an exercise program. If I can make time, I would do that myself. I'm terrible at push-ups and crunches, and would rather spend time learning self-defense techniques and drilling.

Sport/Skill specific conditioning: Building specific types of strength/conditioning that relate to the activity at hand.

Use of drills for conditioning. Pummeling drills, hit and sprawl, mitt/pad work for conditioning on the clock at high intensity. Resistance in hands on drills specifically to create higher work requirements.

The upside is that the time spent on this conditioning translates into the specific skills needed in that art. Your students will be strong where you expect them to be strong. Conditioned to a skill and pace that they are going to need to learn. Some skill transfer should be taking place.

The down side is that there is more time in setting up the drills. Setting up a mitt drill, or knees on pads, and getting everyone time to do it takes more class time up than having everyone do push ups and burpies. You have to demo the skill/drill whereas with most general conditioning drills you can name/show what needs to be done in a second. And, you usually are only going to have to run one set of rounds/drills to catch everyone. There can be weak links in your conditioning/strength. Outside of the specifics you have built up, your students could end up with holes in their physical abilities because there are only so many drills you can run over time.

These are the kinds of drills that I would rather spend time doing. At our Defensive Tactics club, we do pummeling drills as warm-ups, both standing and on the ground. I also try to do some drills with them that get them moving, but have them working on blocking and evading along with them. I also have them do shrimping along the floor for warm-up. I like the idea of using mitts or in TKD doing hogu drills to get moving and work technique that way.

So, where do you stand, what does your class do? Do you mix the two or not spend any conditioning time in class at all? Is it all on the student to be in shape for class? This question got into my head a couple of weeks ago after training with a different school/gym. Their approach was very different to ours (usually) and I was told that was the norm for almost all classes. It was a lot of general conditioning, with only 6 skill using stations out of an hour and forty minute training session. I fully believe that if I trained with this gym a couple of times a week I would be in better over all condition than I am now. However, I don't not think I would get the same boost in ability to use my martial skill if I spent the same amount of time on skill specific conditioning. There will be a benefit that I would expect to see from general attribute development. I know that box jumping will improve my kicking power/speed (if I don't die falling off the box), however would hitting the bag and shields with a focus purely on power and speed achieve the same gains? Or less, or more?

I like doing technique-focused stuff, especially with a partner if at all possible. We don't do any kind of the general conditioning exercises in our TKD classes. We start with basics, and that will generally take about 15 minutes of the class. We usually move at a pretty good clip, and I always get tired and winded doing basics. So, that provides a nice warm-up, a bit of cardio, and its all TKD technique, to boot. None of it is partner, but it beats running for 15 minutes.

If I'm going to do some kind of general conditioning, I'd prefer to do it on the side, on my own. If some instructor wants me to rip off 50 push-ups, I can't do it. I'd rather not spend time in class watching others do what I can't and feeling silly for not being in the same kind of shape that others are. I'd much rather being doing skill building drills that give me a workout in the process.

[cheesefrysamurai]

Where my Sensei tells me!!!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

A dojo training session should have just enough time to do the stretching and physical conditioning required to warm up and prevent injuries. Any additional workout is part of individual student's personal initiative.

The bulk of the dojo training time ought to focus on correcting previously learned techniques, drills to reinforce these and introducing new material. Any other and additional practise is on each students initiative. That is why the best students, those who progress steadily and faster are the ones who practise on their own time in addition to training in the dojo. Those are invariably the ones who make a conscious effort to improve and usually end up staying.

Just following along with everybody else and repeating the same things countless times without thinking like a zombie shuffling along the floor will not make one any better. Everything depends on a persons determination and will do do better than yesterday. The instructor can only counsel, correct and explain on how or what should be done according to a students strength and weaknesses. Effective dojo training focusses on teaching, correcting and fine tuning. Practise and repetition is homework and a good instructor can easily tell if his students have done homework.