Automatic grading

[chiliphil1]

Speaking of auto grading, has anyone ever seen auto failing? This was something that went on within my old school. Every student is guaranteed to fail the black belt test, or 1st degree, one of them.. No one passed first try no matter how good they were.

It was said that this was done to make sure someone was serious before they let them cross that threshold. The time between dan gradings was 6 months, so if one did not pass they would have to attend classes for 6 more months before they could try again..

Any of you guys ever heard of that?

[sensei8]

Auto failing? To me, that sounds bizarre!! Just as bizarre as Auto Grading is! The two are an oxymoron, to me!!

Auto Grading? Auto Failing? Why bother with a ranking structure at all?

Dan grading every 6 months? Not today! Not tomorrow! Not in the future! Not ever!!

[chiliphil1]

Auto failing? To me, that sounds bizarre!! Just as bizarre as Auto Grading is! The two are an oxymoron, to me!!

Auto Grading? Auto Failing? Why bother with a ranking structure at all?

Dan grading every 6 months? Not today! Not tomorrow! Not in the future! Not ever!!

I want to clarify, I think that my wording was not clear.. I did not mean you move from one dan rank to the next in six months, I meant that they only have testing for that level every six months. There is a 1 year minimum between BB and 1st degree, then two, three, etc.. Until 4th dan, in my system that is the last one you test for, the rest are "appointed".

If someone is a 1st Red which is the last one before black and they fail the BB test they would have to wait 6 months for the next BB test to roll around to try again.

[cathal]

I am with sensei8 on auto-grading (as I am with so many things!) but I am also curious on the techniques being taught versus the testing guideline & the standards of each rank.

For example does the instructor hand over a solid yellow belt after 30 calendar days of dojo membership as the sole criteria? Does the instructor hand you over a stripe after he/she believes you've proven you can perform Age Uke, because that is what the dojo deems that new stripe (aka rank) to signify?

For me it all boils down to how the ranking structure is designed. Aspects such as intent, motivation, adherence to protocols (i.e. respect, tenure), standards, and more. Combine this with the proper intent of use, universal execution, and tempered wisdom and you have your rank structure.

Handing out a rank willy-nilly is a bad practice and a sure sign that something is wrong.

[bushido_man96]

I don't like the idea of the auto-fail, either. I don't think its right to lead a student on for them to test, knowing that you will not pass them just to test their willingness to stay with the program. To me, its not worth putting in the effort if I know I am going to be failed, no matter how hard I work, or how much I show I deserve it. It would be more ethical, I feel, to just stretch out the time between tests to fit the instructor's philosophy on the rank.

Cathal, its good to see you back!

[cathal]

I don't like the idea of the auto-fail, either. I don't think its right to lead a student on for them to test, knowing that you will not pass them just to test their willingness to stay with the program. To me, its not worth putting in the effort if I know I am going to be failed, no matter how hard I work, or how much I show I deserve it. It would be more ethical, I feel, to just stretch out the time between tests to fit the instructor's philosophy on the rank.

My sentiments exactly.

Cathal, its good to see you back!

Thanks!

[sensei8]

If theirs any type of Auto grading and Auto failing, I surely hope that there's no testing fee attached! If so, OUCH, and someone please show me the closest exit!!

[chiliphil1]

If theirs any type of Auto grading and Auto failing, I surely hope that there's no testing fee attached! If so, OUCH, and someone please show me the closest exit!!

You know what's funny? My old school had a $200 fee for a dan grading. If you failed you did not have to pay it again, the fee was "paid" until you passed.. Also once you paid 12 months you didn't have to pay again until you hit the next dan rank and then again you pay for 12 months.. Very odd system.. BUT if you think about it, it's sort of a consolation for failing, you get to attend classes for free until you pass and you don't have to pay the testing fee again..

[JR 137]

Speaking of auto grading, has anyone ever seen auto failing? This was something that went on within my old school. Every student is guaranteed to fail the black belt test, or 1st degree, one of them.. No one passed first try no matter how good they were.

It was said that this was done to make sure someone was serious before they let them cross that threshold. The time between dan gradings was 6 months, so if one did not pass they would have to attend classes for 6 more months before they could try again..

Any of you guys ever heard of that?

My old sensei said everyone in his original system failed their shodan test the first time. Apparently that was part of the test - to see how well you handled failure. He's no longer in that system.

Auto promoting and auto failing are absurd. In my former and current system, it's very hard to fail. You have to either give up, completely freeze, or be disrespectful to fail. The catch is you're not invited to test if you haven't proven yourself worthy of the rank. Your teacher determines when you promote; there's no "sign up if you feel you're ready" policy.

Basically, you've proven you're worthy of the rank before the test. The test is pretty much a test of spirit/being pushed further/seeing where you're breaking point is.

After I earned my shodan, I assisted with 2 other shodan tests. Both were different due to the different personal limits of the people testing. The curriculum demonstrated were the same every time, but the intensity was different. It was a test of how far they came and if they were truly giving it their all rather than "all shod and much kick at least X height, throw Y punches per minute, break Z boards, etc.

That's what it's all about IMO. Demonstrating what you've been taught while showing you can keep it together during your maximum intensity/physical stress.

[Spartacus Maximus]

There are much too many dojos and organizations that seem to go out of their way to make gradings or evaluations more complicated than they ought to be. The best kind of grading has a few very clear points revolving around positive answers to questions such as:

The person understands how to perform the material

Displays correct movement

Has a sound grasp of how to apply the subject material

Can demonstrate all of the above to a higher level without major mistakes or omissions under pressure such as with an opponent.

Either a person can or cannot. Either the student has refined his skills or needs more practise, that is all there is to it. No need for fancy ceremonies or overly complicated process.