Automatic grading

[mal103]

My old club very much slipped into auto grading people for just turning up for 3-4 months, other clubs nearby are similar.

When I split from my old club and formed my own earlier this year I made a promise that this would be one thing that stopped, a few have been annoyed and a few more are now being stopped from grading due to lack of effort or skills. I don't want to upset people as they will generally just leave but I am now getting the full backing and respect from the rest of my students who are really pleased with this change.

I will still have over 30 students grading next month but the general feeling is that they will feel they have earnt it.

I think auto grading maybe fine for beginners to get them started but the standards must gradually be applied. I have a few around 4th/5th kyu who are lacking in a few things and are not listening or responding to guidance so won't be going any further until they tune in.

I think auto gradings are a clear sign of a McDojo - what do you think?

[Zaine]

I tend to agree with you sentiment about auto-grading being a sign of a McDojo. However, as this forum has proven many times, the line between legit and McDojo isn't always clearly defined.

I certainly understand auto-grading, keeping students is hard and if you can get them hooked by ranking them up, even if they haven't necessarily earned it, what's the harm? Certainly they can catch up.

The problem with this logic, I think, is that now the student has to catch up to their own rank and then become proficient enough to be promoted to the next and that can take a lot of time.

I feel that I earned all of my ranks. There used to be a time where it would make me angry to see people rank up who didn't deserve it because I had worked so hard for mine but I've gotten over that. Now I feel sad because they will never have the same sense of accomplishment that I achieved.

I wouldn't worry too much about your old dojo. If the instructor wants to take the school in that direction then that is their choice. As an instructor of your own school, you should focus on your students and give them the training they deserve.

[bushido_man96]

If a school has a testing format, then I don't like to see auto-grading. If there is a test, make it a test. Otherwise, its not a test. Now, some schools/styles don't do testings, but promote based on what they see in the classroom when they see fit. I don't have a problem with this method, either. But, do one or the other.

[Lupin1]

We don't "auto grade" but we do move all the beginners up at the same time for the first few belt levels. For the kids we usually start groups of 5-6 beginners all at the same time and keep them learning together (usually half the class doing warmups and kihon with everyone else and then half the class separate working on basics [my job]). After they all have the general pattern of the first kata and the majority of them can do it decently without prompting or too many pauses, we'll move the whole group up to the next belt. Since we continue working that material along with the new, it's ok if everyone doesn't have it perfectly or to the same level. We follow that pattern usually until yellow belt (our fourth belt for the kids and the first "official Isshinryu" belt) when they start being graded each in their own time.

It keeps them motivated in the beginning and keeps them coming as well as gives a much needed confidence boost to the ones who maybe aren't quite "getting it" yet. As our first few kids belts are mostly just made up ranks to give the kids smaller goals and keep them motivated (we don't even have those belts for the adults-- they just keep a white belt until they have all four beginning kata down), it doesn't matter as much and it keeps them excited and happy and showing up long enough to give it a fair chance.

So honestly I can see the benefits in both. I certainly don't think anyone should advance to black belt that way and not even into the intermediate/advanced kyu grades. But in the beginning when everyone's just learning, the confidence boost may more than make up for the leniency and a lot of times the small discrepancies even themselves out along the way.

[mazzybear]

My instructor has recently changed his criteria for grading, for the better IMO. It used to be a grading was held every 4 months, if you're good enough, you pass, if not, you don't. Nothing unusual there. But there would be folk who would train sporadically in between (maybe one or two classes every few weeks) if asked to demonstrate a Kihon/Ohyo, they would stand with a blank look on their face, they then attend all classes in the week before the grade. I have to say, this infuriated me, I attend all classes each week and know what Kihon/Ohyo my instructor wants demonstrated.

I'm glad to say, my instrutor has now changed it, so from 9th-4th Kyu require 50% attendance of all classes from the 4 month cycle and from 3rd-1st Kyu 75% attendance. I think the final straw for him was a young guy who is 2nd Kyu and out of the last 48 classes has attended just 9, every time he turns up he asks about when the next grade is, much to my instructors annoyance.

I'm delighted he's changed it, now when I'm on the floor doing a grading, I know the person next to me has put in the same work as I have.

Mo.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Auto- grading is always a bad idea if the purpose of instruction is to teach any applicable skills. Students do not graduate from school just by going to class and sitting through their courses. They have to study to absorb the material and have to pass exams to determine how well they apply the notions taught.

Martial arts should not be different and those who do not practise or only attend the minimum lessons should not ever expect to advance in skill or rank. Giving out ranks just for presence and participation renders them useless and affects everyone negatively.

It just feeds the displaced and selfish sense of overblown entitlement that is so common in consumer mentalities. It is also a great insult to the determination of those who have spent years paying for their skills with pain, sweat, tears and blood. Taught the right way, martial arts is perhaps one of the best activities to teach the value of hard earned skills. Now that is a lesson for life.

On the other hand the average person may not know or care that he has not gained an ounce of skill and still could not break himself free from a wet paper bag. Maybe some others are just happy breaking a sweat and flailing about without ever asking about what the moves mean. The still want that next pretty coloured belt and they will throw a fit if they are passed up on it.

Usually a high number of belts and auto- grading is a clue that the pursuit and refinement of skill is not a priority. It is also a common strategy for increasing profit in schools aimed at children and youth including McDojos but not exclusively.

[Archimoto]

Auto- grading is always a bad idea if the purpose of instruction is to teach any applicable skills. Students do not graduate from school just by going to class and sitting through their courses. They have to study to absorb the material and have to pass exams to determine how well they apply the notions taught.

Martial arts should not be different and those who do not practise or only attend the minimum lessons should not ever expect to advance in skill or rank. Giving out ranks just for presence and participation renders them useless and affects everyone negatively.

It just feeds the displaced and selfish sense of overblown entitlement that is so common in consumer mentalities. It is also a great insult to the determination of those who have spent years paying for their skills with pain, sweat, tears and blood. Taught the right way, martial arts is perhaps one of the best activities to teach the value of hard earned skills. Now that is a lesson for life.

On the other hand the average person may not know or care that he has not gained an ounce of skill and still could not break himself free from a wet paper bag. Maybe some others are just happy breaking a sweat and flailing about without ever asking about what the moves mean. The still want that next pretty coloured belt and they will throw a fit if they are passed up on it.

Usually a high number of belts and auto- grading is a clue that the pursuit and refinement of skill is not a priority. It is also a common strategy for increasing profit in schools aimed at children and youth including McDojos but not exclusively.

Well said!!! I completely agree although I'll admit there are times when I have mixed feelings on the subject. For example, years ago we had a very obese student and our Sifu "auto-graded" him twice in his first year to keep him coming back because not coming back posed a serious health risk to this individual. Looking back I respect my Sifu for his decision and it truly helped this individual stick with it. There have been a few other instances where auto grading was truly beneficial, otherwise, I find en masse auto grading quite loathsome.

[mal103]

Some good points and perspectives that also enforce my stance on the subject. I think the odd special case is acceptible but below 3rd/4th kyu - i have a couple that have come to me from another style and a lower standard school, i intend to grade them this time based on their effort and will work on back filling their skills ready for the next grade, this they may have to skip but i wanted to boost their confidence.

there is a lower grade who misses a few lessons, doesn't put in any effort, doesn't try to act on my corrections however i have tried to get them across, he is also found to be relaxing behind my back and often stares out the window - even if i've moved in front of him to demonstrate something. He's not the only one but is the worst, i don't see why i should promote anyone who trains like that. The rest are working their hearts out.

funny how they become keen near a grading.... goes back to denying a grading to anyone that asks for it.

[sensei8]

Auto-Grading? Now, I've heard it all!! Grading because you show up to class? Forget it!!

Whomever thought this up should be ashamed!! And rightfully so!!

Achieving grade by just showing up is a slap in the face of any serious minded practitioner. Can't perform up to expectations...don't worry about it...you'll pass because you've not missed any classes. We'll worry about your MA betterment much later.

Better yet, just award the black belt at their first class! That will eliminate having to keep track of their class attendance, just as long as they're paid up and current on their dues!!

This ever comes to Shindokan...I QUIT!!

Come to class...train hard...test....and if you don't pass...repeat the first two before you can be allowed to number three...if you're lucky enough!!

[sensei8]

Auto- grading is always a bad idea if the purpose of instruction is to teach any applicable skills. Students do not graduate from school just by going to class and sitting through their courses. They have to study to absorb the material and have to pass exams to determine how well they apply the notions taught.

Martial arts should not be different and those who do not practise or only attend the minimum lessons should not ever expect to advance in skill or rank. Giving out ranks just for presence and participation renders them useless and affects everyone negatively.

It just feeds the displaced and selfish sense of overblown entitlement that is so common in consumer mentalities. It is also a great insult to the determination of those who have spent years paying for their skills with pain, sweat, tears and blood. Taught the right way, martial arts is perhaps one of the best activities to teach the value of hard earned skills. Now that is a lesson for life.

On the other hand the average person may not know or care that he has not gained an ounce of skill and still could not break himself free from a wet paper bag. Maybe some others are just happy breaking a sweat and flailing about without ever asking about what the moves mean. The still want that next pretty coloured belt and they will throw a fit if they are passed up on it.

Usually a high number of belts and auto- grading is a clue that the pursuit and refinement of skill is not a priority. It is also a common strategy for increasing profit in schools aimed at children and youth including McDojos but not exclusively.

Solid post!!