Training in the Gi for Self Defense and LE

[tallgeese]

Okay, last of our on going series about JKD and BJJ and how they work together. Today's topic is the use, and importance, of training in the gi for self defense work. This also bleeds over into some BJJ and its effect on law enforcement control tactics.

Give it a go and let me know what you think!

[bushido_man96]

I will be watching this, as soon as I have some time!

Just a note on your opening post. Many times, I've heard that the use of the gi in training doesn't help as much for self-defense, because many people don't wear material as durable as it is. Sure, shirts can be grabbed and used and whatnot, but the long sleeves of the gi aren't always there for us to use. That's one thing I notice in your grips in your videos, how you have the gi sleeve to grab onto, whereas our DT club only grapples no gi.

But, I'm not saying I disagree with the importance of the use of the gi. I think it can be quite useful for training. I'm just repeating what I have heard in the past, and the arguments for training without a gi, BJJ or other styles included.

[tallgeese]

Check out the vid when you have some time. There's some conceptual stuff in there that goes beyond the sort of thing you're talking about (which I don't entirely disagree with.)

Also, don't be afraid to experiment. The core movements that make this stuff work are the same between gi and no gi. Sure, the grips make a world of difference, but there's lots you can do by taking wrists, forearms, elbows and underhooks as well.

Play and experiment. Don't be afraid to get passed, subbed, ect.

[bushido_man96]

Hehe, I don't have a problem with getting subbed. That happens a lot. Happened today, too. I really got switch partners. The guy I roll with is the conference Wrestling champ at school.

[sensei8]

A very definitive topic through and through! And as always, your explanations are right across the spectrum of the topic at hand. The Q&A of these videos are what all MAist need, and not just the mat work, with, both are critical elements in developing their MA betterment.

Gi...no gi...those elements have to be appreciated and understood, because while one might not like to train in a gi, one better understand it's possibilities because they might encounter an assailant who's well trained in the gi, and therefore, use it to their advantages and to your disadvantages.

Nice Q&A, as always. I look forward to many more.

LEO's are handcuffed by rules and regulations for obvious reasons, but...

Are there ever any scenario's that allow LEO's to react outside of the rules and regulations concerning MA training and abilities??

On a side note, I notice, while watching that Alex isn't very still while sitting...I suppose that he'd rather be rolling than speaking, but he does both quite well. It's the lion within him that can't wait to pounce upon his prey!! Btw, it's a good thing that I'm noting!!

[bushido_man96]

LEO's are handcuffed by rules and regulations for obvious reasons, but...

Are there ever any scenario's that allow LEO's to react outside of the rules and regulations concerning MA training and abilities??

I think I see what you are asking here, Bob, but I'd like for you to elaborate on what you mean just a bit more, so I can be sure to answer properly.

Alex, another great Q&A session. I think you hit some very good points on the use of training gi for LEO purposes. Keeping that posture while having a hand busy is a great point of emphasis.

You also made a good point that I notice with the no-gi I've been doing. It seems like things can stall out a lot more. I don't ever know what to do or how to start working towards a submission. I try to control the other person, but this usually ends up wearing me out as well, and I just don't see any options to finish the roll.

[sensei8]

LEO's are handcuffed by rules and regulations for obvious reasons, but...

Are there ever any scenario's that allow LEO's to react outside of the rules and regulations concerning MA training and abilities??

I think I see what you are asking here, Bob, but I'd like for you to elaborate on what you mean just a bit more, so I can be sure to answer properly.

For obvious reasons, LEO's, if I'm correct, can't apply certain techniques, nor can they apply certain techniques to finish. Not like I can!!

Sure, there are laws that regulate everything, and I can face criminal charges. However, I believe that LEO's have a greater chance at facing criminal charges, suspensions, and the like than I.

Inasmuch, a LEO must be able to defend him/herself at any cost; life or death...that's then going to be up to the courts to decide.

The LAPD's choke hold was so modified, and for some great reasons, imho, that it's more of a temporary restraint to allow more transitional, and accept per department policies, control restraints. Choke hold...transfer down to a double or single chicken arm hold. After all, a choke hold can cause death, whereas, an arm-bar can't!

IF a LEO hurts a suspect, accidentally or intentionally, department policies dictate the level of discipline, if any. Department policies exist in addition to law. Law's the only thing that governs citizens; we've no department policies to adhere to.

Whether a suspect is correct in his/her accusations towards a LEO or not, IAD will be immediately involved until the case is closed. It doesn't take much to put a LEO on the hot-seat at the word of the suspect; perception is all that's needed.

[bushido_man96]

Ok, Bob, thanks for elaborating. I thought that was where you were going, but wanted to be sure before answering.

I'm sure Alex can share some points along these lines as well. With regards to the use of force, we follow a force continuum. It used to be called a use-of-force "ladder," but that terminology isn't used anymore, because it was thought that you could only climb the rungs of the ladder one at a time. The fact of the matter is that force doesn't escalate on a ladder, one step at a time, but can move from one point on the continuum to another without any warning. So, the continuum is a better term.

With that said, we as officers don't have to let ourselves get beat up. What's important is that we don't go over the amount of force necessary to control the situation. You see the use of Tasers or other such tools have become a lot more popular because they really nullify the use of physical force that officers have to rely on.

The use of techniques like head and neck restraints (notice I did not use the term choke...it doesn't look good in court) are usually decided on differently from department to department.

Now, when it comes to self-defense as an officer, if I'm one-on-one with someone that is trying to beat me to a pulp, I don't have to sit back and only try to block and deflect attacks until I can secure a wrist and then do a takedown, get the prone, and cuff. I an equal the amount of force being used against me. The key to success in all this is the articulation of why you do what you do.

I hope that helps to answer your question, Bob. Let me know if you have something more specific in mind.

[sensei8]

Solid answer to my question, Brian.

I'm no LEO, therefore, my assumptions weren't from experience; having students who are LEO's cause me to speak out of turn at time. Forgive me for that!!

Tasers...yeah...I'll never know enough MA to counter that!!

Good to know that LEO's aren't suppose to stand there and get beat to a pulp. So, does the IAD suspend an officer immediately after a suspect accuses an officer of excessive force? And, does that cause some LEO's to do his/her job with a more kid-gloves mindset?

Please forgive me, Alex, I don't mean to highjack your thread!!

[bushido_man96]

Each department is going to handle an accusation of "police brutality" differently. Some will get the officer some time off initially so that things can be reviewed. Others will not do this, and will investigate it by starting with the officer.

New technology, like in-car cameras and audio recorders, really help officers in these situations, or hurt them, depending on how they do their job.