An article on sine wave theory

[bushido_man96]

Here's an article I saw the other day, and thought I would post it up here for some discussion: http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/another-blind-alley-sine-wave-debate.html

The author of the article isn't pro-sine wave. I'm not either, really, and I think this article brings up some interesting points of discussion about sine wave and whether or not it produces power, or how well it does it.

[DWx]

Whilst I am certainly no authority on ITF style or sine wave, I have to say that the author of the article evidently lacks any training in said method and picked pretty poor examples to base his argument and article on. My belief is you cannot criticise anything unless you have taken the time to fully inform yourself on the topic (this goes for all areas in life not just MA). Perhaps he should attend some lessons with an instructor who teaches this methodology?

Anyway, with regards to sine wave and it's implementation, even in my short training time this has changed over and over again as to how it should be done. There was a period where people were still playing with the technique and naturally thought bigger is better so started emphasising massive downward movements as it was "more powerful". Nowadays this movement is less and less (although you still see it at competition for the aesthetics).

It's always hard to defend something like this via Internet rather than training together in person however I'll give it a go (beware, long post!)

The article's author is correct in that the rise and fall motion is to imitate this natural running and walking rise and fall that occurs. If you are to bring the feet from a long stance to under the body and then back out again, then of course you will raise up and fall down unless you specifically load the legs in order to stay low. This is the basis for sine wave. Loading the legs to stay low is considered bad form as it is not relaxed enough.

Now in addition to the natural rise and fall when stepping, ITF TKD also adds an additional downwards movement before stepping through and raising up. Unfortunately this has been grossly exaggerated over the years to a massive movement down which IMHO serves little purpose. How I've been taught is that this initial down movement is not a big thing. It is without effort. You just totally relax and "sigh" with your entire body. Relaxation means smooth and smooth means fast. This sighing action also serves to unlock the hip as invariably the back leg is typically locked straight in many stances. Everything is loose at this point and without tension.

Then we have the phase I deem as "expansion". If we are to do sine wave on the spot without moving the feet or stance, the small up movement comes from drawing back the hip and getting ready to fire the movement all the way from the back foot, the leg, hip then arm. But we are still relaxed and soft at this point. Then like the hammer of a gun hitting the firing pin and setting off a chain reaction, the leg drives the punch out. I like to call this "contraction".

When stepping stance to stance the mechanism is different but still falls under this rise and fall action. It's a weird concept but I like to think of this as the "down (relaxation) - rise up (expand) action as not being the start of a movement but the end of the previous. So say you've punched and are in a walking (front) stance. From here we need to go back to a neutral position. First relax and sigh (slight natural dip) then bring the feet in and under the shoulder line. At the same time the arms 9/10 times come in front of the chest. This is neutral. Every movement, every step and every turn can come from here. So ok the form dictates that I am now to step forward with a middle block or maybe it tells me to turn left and strike. But it doesn't have to be so. From neutral I can do anything as my weight is easily controlled, I am totally relaxed and I can manoeuvre easily. It just so happens that this must be an up phase as my legs have gone from long to underneath my body. This to me is the true start of a movement not the down phase. That said this neutral position is momentary and a transitional position so I won't stay there very long. I pick a direction and then propel myself into a stance and into a technique. I've got to go down if my legs finish anywhere other than shoulder width/length. Hence up and down and not staying down.

Whilst the majority of movements fall into either of those descriptions we do have exceptions to the rules. The down relaxation phases can be skipped and movements performed in "fast motion" i.e. we can skip the underlined down part when we need to chain together faster:

down (relax) - up (expand) - down (contract) - down (relax) - up (expand) - down (contract)

There are also movements where the stepping up (or down) phase can be used to assist in a lift or throw so we are using the big muscles of the leg and not just the arms.

The major difference I think is in how (Shotokan) Karate and Taekwon-Do view the role of kata or tul as ITFers refer to them. Would I be correct in thinking that in Karate movement in kata strongly inspires how one would move in a fight or in self defense? In ITF we know we will not fight from a strict walking stance or L-stance and will certainly not start a fight in this position. How do we stand most of the time? Feet directly under our bodies. Maybe with a bit of forewarning we'll take a slightly longer stance akin to a boxing stance or a shortened L-stance. This is natural and this is relaxed. Even in high risk areas where I might think I could be attacked I will still be more upright than a walking (front) stance. So we tend to train to fight from such a stance. Also TKD is 60% or more kicks with a significant emphasis of using the legs to control range. Kicking is much easier from a higher shorter stance.

So now any attack I throw from this position, assuming I then lengthen my stance and "lunge" into it will force me to drop. As discussed we've trained ourselves to begin everything from this up position ie. this is a neutral position from earlier; all of our stepping, blocks and attacks to come from this position and we will always have to go down. So train as we would want to fight.

In the strictest sense sine wave isn't about power at all. It is about a forced relaxation and making everything without tension.

Indeed, one of the principles of shotokan karate (from which ITF taekwondo evolved) is to practise “level movement” – ie. to keep the same height while stepping in a low forward stance. “Sine wave” practitioners argue that this is unnatural – and indeed it might appear to be when one is stepping up and down the floor in class. But the error in the criticism lies here: In their stepping exercises, shotokan karateka are not training to cover the length of the floor. Rather each step is a separate attempt to cover the distance of one metre or so. Each step is separate training for movement in the melee. Doing steps one after the other just allows the karateka multiple opportunities to train that single, lunging step. The idea isn’t to get from one side of the dojo/dojang/kwoon as quickly as possible. It is to make each separate step as quick as possible.

So this is where I would call into question the validity of this point (my emphasis in bold). I am never going to be in a low forward stance so maintaining a low height when stepping into this stance isn't as crucial. Yes I totally agree that the quickest and shortest path is in a straight line to the target but I'm starting in an upright position and if I step long I must go down. So I train all of my movements whilst going down into a stance.

ITF methodology is also that we don't keep stepping forward with hand attacks as described here. If an aggressor is far enough away that I have to take another step to him, I should kick instead and not chase with the hands. Otherwise I should go back up to neutral ready for my next move.

So that's my understanding anyway. Rather than the video in the article, my goal looks more like this:

Of course one of the major issues today is a non-comprehensive understanding of physics / mechanics some TKD instructors have. I'll also say that whilst the explanations in the General's Encyclopedia are correct, the English isn't great or very well phrased so there is room for misinterpretation. Hence we have this self-perpetuating cycle of instructors teaching grossly exaggerated movements because it's "move powerful".

[ninjanurse]

Hence we have this self-perpetuating cycle of instructors teaching grossly exaggerated movements because it's "move powerful".

Hence we get to the meat of it.

[bushido_man96]

Thank you for taking the time for that post, Danielle. The video you posted was of a much tamer sine wave than I see in most of the videos out there. Its still more than I do, but not as bad as what I usually see.

I do understand the premise of the up/down motion present naturally while walking. However, this natural motion is not as exaggerated as it is made in most of the ITF tuls I see performed. However, I do understand the usefulness of what you mention about bringing the legs underneath so you are neutral and in control of the body. Very good explanation there.

[DWx]

Thank you for taking the time for that post, Danielle. The video you posted was of a much tamer sine wave than I see in most of the videos out there. Its still more than I do, but not as bad as what I usually see.

I do understand the premise of the up/down motion present naturally while walking. However, this natural motion is not as exaggerated as it is made in most of the ITF tuls I see performed. However, I do understand the usefulness of what you mention about bringing the legs underneath so you are neutral and in control of the body. Very good explanation there.

I can appreciate to the uninitiated it can seem and look very weird and I would agree that the vast majority of what is on YouTube is highly over the top and exaggerated. Aside from the fact of bad or mis-informed instructors, there's also been a trend in international comps to make the movement bigger and bigger because its more aesthetic. So then you get people on a local level trying to emulate them.

Personally I don't think the movement is bad in essence but when done over the top detracts from the effectiveness. But it's not an all or nothing scenario, IMHO some is good, too much is bad. Goldlilocks. Doesn't mean there isn't value in the right amount done for the right reasons.

I guess the other thing to bear in mind is what was happening on the political scene when this was first introduced to ITF TKD. The General wanted ITF TKD to be different from Karate (and WTF) and be all new and improved. Needed to make sure people knew it was different.

[bushido_man96]

I guess the other thing to bear in mind is what was happening on the political scene when this was first introduced to ITF TKD. The General wanted ITF TKD to be different from Karate (and WTF) and be all new and improved. Needed to make sure people knew it was different.

I guess this has been my major issue with the use of sine wave. Did making it different make it better, and was there really that much research put into the decision to make this change? Or did the General make the change, and everyone followed along, and now people look for ways to explain how it does deliver the power its been said to deliver? That is what I really wonder.