Have You Actually Seen a 10 Year Old Full Black Belt?

[bushido_man96]

In my time in TKD, I've always seen a timetable between each black belt rank, usually equal to the number of years as number of dan testing for. I'm a 4th dan now, so I have to wait 4.5 years before I'm eligible to test for 5th dan.

[JR 137]

I earned my JBB when I was 13 years old; I was a JBB for 5 years!! What did I do?? Trained!! Our Sensei/Dai-Soke continued to teach us as though we were adults, but, we weren't allowed to rank until we turned 18 years old; Soke wouldn't allow it!!

By the time I reached 18 years old, I had trained for 5 years:

1975...I turned 18 years old...Earned Shodan

1976...Earned Nidan

1977...Earned Sandan

That's what can happen when one's stuck at JBB for 5 years. Dai-Soke, when I petitioned for my Sandan Testing Cycle, told me that I was more than ready. Why? Because Dai-Soke trained us in the curriculum/syllabus of those 3 Dan's without any ambiguity for 5 years.

Judging by the posts I've read written by you, it's a great thing you 'stuck it out' so to speak and kept training all those years with no chance to promote at that age. And nor did you know that you'd achieve sandan that quickly after shodan.

You're an extreme exception, and definitely not the rule. At least not nowadays. It's all about instant gratification these days. I'd be willing to bet we lost a lot of great would-be martial artists because there was no perverbial carrot on a stick to keep them going when there's several years between junior black belt and shodan.

Edited May 29, 2015 by JR 137

[JR 137]

You can still do that with junior black belt. That's what we did with it. We call it junior black belt and use an "oreo" belt, but it has three degrees and has its own curriculum (equivalent to the three degrees of adult brown belt), so the kids are still working on stuff.

It takes them about four years to get JBB and another 3-4 to get full adult black belt, so if they get their JBB in 7th or 8th grade (we don't start them until they're in 3rd or 4th) they'll get their full adult black belt around 17 or 18. If they don't get full black belt by the time they graduate high school, they enter into the adult grading system as brown belts and continue to work on the Shodan requirements from there.

The key is to set legitimate goals beyond JBB to keep the kids working rather than just sticking them in a holding pattern until they reach a certain age. I also don't believe in having the same requirements for JBB as for adult black belt. If a kid meets all your requirements for full black belt at 10 they should get a full black belt. Otherwise, JBB should be about working towards the meeting the requirements for full BB.

Excellent post/points. Kids need to be challenged every day, otherwise they lose interest very quickly.

Something about the junior black belt just turns me off. I know it shouldn't, but it does. But without it, I wonder how many kids wouldn't bother even starting?

[CredoTe]

Despite always hearing about the "mystical and ethereal" 10 year old black belt, I've actually only ever witnessed 1 in my entire life. It was about 3 years ago at another dojo in our area; a dojo known for emphasizing tournament karate. The CI there is a good guy, I like him (he's the kind of guy that would give you the shirt off of his back if he though it would help you), but he is not known for traditional / fighting sense karate-do. He does very well for himself and his dojo, but he buys into the flashy, bells-and-whistles stuff, even more so the younger the student is.

On one hand, I can see awarding a child student for hard work and achievement. But, on the other, what sort of false-sense-of-security message does that give a 10 year kid?

[The Pred]

Trying to play devil's advocate here. Not counting mental maturity?, could a 70 year old man (who started training at 65) defend himself against a 30-35 year old man.

[bushido_man96]

Trying to play devil's advocate here. Not counting mental maturity?, could a 70 year old man (who started training at 65) defend himself against a 30-35 year old man.

It would be just as challenging. Sure, he might be able to fall back on some experience, but by and large, its tough to beat a person who is in their physical prime.

[The Pred]

Trying to play devil's advocate here. Not counting mental maturity?, could a 70 year old man (who started training at 65) defend himself against a 30-35 year old man.

It would be just as challenging. Sure, he might be able to fall back on some experience, but by and large, its tough to beat a person who is in their physical prime.

Very true !

[JR 137]

Trying to play devil's advocate here. Not counting mental maturity?, could a 70 year old man (who started training at 65) defend himself against a 30-35 year old man.

I've seen a few 70 year olds who'll easily beat up on people less than half their age. They're very rare, but they're out there. A family friend who's a retired Marine drill instructor comes to mind with a smile.

My reservations with junior black belts or more so very young black belts doesn't come from physical abilities; it comes from maturity. There are kids who are quite mature, and adults who are quite immature. But life experience has to count for something.

Again, I hate that I'm not a fan of junior black belts, but I can't help it. Yes, I'm putting a piece of cloth around someone's waist that when you really boil it down, all it does is keep their gi closed. Sometimes it even fails to do just that. But there's something sacred about a black belt. Handing it out to anyone who's shown the physical requirements undermines all martial arts IMO. How do you think most non-martial artists view them? They have a point, even though they don't know the whole truth.

I've taken it as far as I can. I wish I could change my view.

[Luther unleashed]

Interesting thread! So we had black belts at that age I. Schools I trained in. Also, I have a daughter who just turned 10 a few months ago and earned her black belt about 9 months ago. It's a jr black belt. To some this may simply mean that they are younger black belts. To me and places I have trained however, a jr black belt is really an adult 1st rank in terms of material learned. They do not do the required forms, techniques, sparring, or anything else that an adult black belt would do. The kids program also has a belt less then the adult program.

So when people make a big deal out of age of black belts, I often question what exact ally that means, because for me it's not an adult black belt and I see nothing wrong with having a kids black belt. I have a lil ninjas program and try get black belts, it's a black belt for their specific age related material of a 6 or 7yr old. The color of belt isn't what should be focused on, it's the age related ranking we should understand. If a school hands out black belts to 10yr olds for competing the same curriculum as the adults then that's different.

If my daughter can perform better then many adult black belts I have seen, does it stand though that because of her age she cannot attain a certain belt around we waist?

[The Pred]

Interesting thread! So we had black belts at that age I. Schools I trained in. Also, I have a daughter who just turned 10 a few months ago and earned her black belt about 9 months ago. It's a jr black belt. To some this may simply mean that they are younger black belts. To me and places I have trained however, a jr black belt is really an adult 1st rank in terms of material learned. They do not do the required forms, techniques, sparring, or anything else that an adult black belt would do. The kids program also has a belt less then the adult program.

So when people make a big deal out of age of black belts, I often question what exact ally that means, because for me it's not an adult black belt and I see nothing wrong with having a kids black belt. I have a lil ninjas program and try get black belts, it's a black belt for their specific age related material of a 6 or 7yr old. The color of belt isn't what should be focused on, it's the age related ranking we should understand. If a school hands out black belts to 10yr olds for competing the same curriculum as the adults then that's different.

If my daughter can perform better then many adult black belts I have seen, does it stand though that because of her age she cannot attain a certain belt around we waist?

I get what you're saying. If dojos have junior black belts why not have junior yellow belts or junior blue belts, etc. After all a kid yellow belt isn't the same as an adult. So why does the black belt only get a junior rank designation.