Hands on the hips?

[hansenator]

Katas, kihons and all line work we will be expected to have our hand on the hip, back straight and hips forward. its in the foundation of most karate styles generally. When we spar that all changes, hands up, hips sideways Sparring is much more natural body position but it is important to understand the traditional side of karate and why such things exist...

That's been another point of confusion for me. The "classical presentation", if you will, seems to differ from what people actually do in sparring or fighting. I understand the idea of using larger movements as a learning aid or a training tool but I haven't seen people really talk about it.

Edited October 8, 2014 by hansenator

[hansenator]

The other side to this question is about fighting guards.

Strictly speaking karate doesn't have one!

Karate was designed for self defense and not dueling.

Even with that in mind, if self defense situation lasts longer than the first move or so, I think good defensive habits could make a difference. With the right training, it takes more effort to not have the hands up where they can intercept attacks.

Granted it was during sparring and not self defense but I can't tell you how many attacks I've stopped that I didn't even see coming because my hands were already in a position to do so and habit put them in the right place.

[hansenator]

Thanks.

I don't mean to labor the point, but here's a quick example.

Say you block last second, a heavy straight punch. Your block was so tight that your fist is up by your cheek, similar to where it sits in a boxing guard.

Your block on the inside has your opponent wide open to a powerful counter with that same blocking hand. Do you think Anyone anywhere would ever drop their hand to their hip before throwing that counter punch?

I agree, no one in their right mind would chamber the fist before punching in that scenario. I'm also equally concerned about retracting the non-punching hand and getting knocked out by the attacker's follow up attack.

[mal103]

I think you are over thinking it for your level, learn to walk first, learn the basics and gradually move on. Don't try to make the basics fit into a street fight.

You could chamber you fist before punching someone, normally after doing something else where the attacker has been manipulated into a certain vulnerable position, this is when you send in your most powerful punch from the hip to end the confrontation, this is the idea behind a lot of just applying basics as most of the time this is all you will remember in the heat of the moment. There is no time to think, you have to rely on what you have trained thousands of times...

[hansenator]

You're right, I probably am over thinking it. I've been guilty of that often enough. I'm just trying to reconcile my limited knowledge of karate with my previous experience.

[DaveB]

Thinking about things is fine. The problem comes when we think we know enough that we stop trying to do better and change things so that they get easier.

Look back over the posts: the guiding message is that this particular aspect of the art is part of training.

You don't lift weights in a fight either but it doesn't mean weight training is not useful for fighting.

Traditional ma are holistic training. You are not just learning a couple of useful habits you are relearning how to move.

Fighting strategy and tactics is a different aspect of training, traditionaly dictated by the kata but always based on what works.

Instead of worrying about getting knocked out for the lack of a guard, challenge yourself to fight without one, pulling your hand to the hip and keeping it there.

How would you have to fight to make this work? What skills will you work on for the next few months to ensure victory?

You will learn more and become better from taking on tasks like that than you will mimicking kick boxers.

[guird]

You're right, I probably am over thinking it. I've been guilty of that often enough. I'm just trying to reconcile my limited knowledge of karate with my previous experience.

Always question. You're right to think about it and to ask. keep training, and if it starts to make sense, good, if not, oh well.

Thinking about things is fine. The problem comes when we think we know enough that we stop trying to do better and change things so that they get easier.

Look back over the posts: the guiding message is that this particular aspect of the art is part of training.

You don't lift weights in a fight either but it doesn't mean weight training is not useful for fighting.

Traditional ma are holistic training. You are not just learning a couple of useful habits you are relearning how to move.

Fighting strategy and tactics is a different aspect of training, traditionaly dictated by the kata but always based on what works.

Instead of worrying about getting knocked out for the lack of a guard, challenge yourself to fight without one, pulling your hand to the hip and keeping it there.

How would you have to fight to make this work? What skills will you work on for the next few months to ensure victory?

You will learn more and become better from taking on tasks like that than you will mimicking kick boxers.

I disagree with the second part, getting into the habit of dropping your hands in a fight won't get you anywhere but the ground.

[hansenator]

Instead of worrying about getting knocked out for the lack of a guard, challenge yourself to fight without one, pulling your hand to the hip and keeping it there.

How would you have to fight to make this work? What skills will you work on for the next few months to ensure victory?

That's kind of at the heart of my original question. How does one fight or defend oneself and not get knocked out while keeping the hand on the hip? I figure there must be ways to account for that or people wouldn't do it. I know boxers can be good at slipping and dodging punches but I don't know what karate people do.

I can understand doing something for training purposes but I don't agree that it's a good idea to make things more challenging in a fight or self-defense encounter.

[DaveB]

I can understand doing something for training purposes but I don't agree that it's a good idea to make things more challenging in a fight or self-defense encounter.

Nor do I. No one advocates not having a guard ever.

The message is this:

TRAINING IS NOT FIGHTING.

HAND ON HIP IS TRAINING.

Virtually no one "fights" with a hand on their hip.

The only environment in which this happens is sport kumite, ie a game based on a training exercise.

To answer the question of how they fight without getting knocked out, they do their best to use distancing and timing supported by simple parries and traps to enter when the opponent is vulnerable and escape when he counters. Basically what Lyoto Machida did.

[mal103]

......I know boxers can be good at slipping and dodging punches but I don't know what karate people do.

I can understand doing something for training purposes but I don't agree that it's a good idea to make things more challenging in a fight or self-defense encounter.

Karate is about a quick end to a confrontation, it can be a smaller/weaker person deflecting an attack and striking back before fleeing the scene.

Boxers stand in front of each other guarding and striking, trying to out smart each other with speed, strength, endurance, tactics.

Sports Karate is similar but with more limbs involved.

Kihon training is the equivalent of soldiers marching, not something you would do in the field of battle.

Eventually Kihon training will evolve into free sparring where you would do your best to block, guard, strike, evade or it starts to hurt...

Keep training, walk, then run.