Hands on the hips?

[hansenator]

Hi everyone,

I'm a first time poster and I recently signed up for a local Shorin ryu class and I wanted to see what people can tell me about the practice of chambering the hand on the hip.

I've looked at numerous videos and books and have had some limited exposure in past classes and it seems like karate people just can't do anything without at least one of their hands being placed on a hip (not literally true I realize, it just seems like it). I understand it's easier to generate power that way and I've heard the arguement that the retracting hand could be grabbing and pulling the opponent into the punch, which is fine if that's what you're doing. I assume it works or people wouldn't keep doing it that way. It's just that I come from a Kali/JKD background and I was always taught that if you drop your hands you'll get knocked out, especially at closer ranges like elbow range.

Please understand, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I'm trying to understand the common practice of what I was taught is a bad idea so I can have faith in the system and commit to it.

Thanks.

[TheRamsIX]

Not a bad question at all. Always good to know why, even if its hard to understand at the point in your training.

Anytime you bring a fist back, it has the intention of bringing something back with it. This could be a gross movement, like a grab, or a fine movement, like a deflection that brings the opponents force past the body. Applications and bunkai can be very open in this regard.

From a physical development stand point, it helps open the chest, which helps balance out power in the upper body. A tight chest will pull the scapula off of the ribcage which lessens power transmission from the torso to the hand. The back and forth motion when changing punching hands also develops connection between the two arms so the strength of both support each other through the back. When waist movement is involved(this takes a while to master, like years) the twist of the waist will actually transmit the twist into the hand, essentially becoming a whole body twist.

The short answer is it is a component in kihon(basics). If you stick with the practice you'll come back to small stuff like this with "aha!" moments.

Good luck in your training!

[mal103]

If you practice this a thousand times while doing Kihon then it will hopefully become an instinctive movement if you are up close and at grappling range. If free sparring then you want your hands out the front and up, they can be open to start with to try to calm the situation or fists if it's come to that , or if it's a competition.

If you are closer then pulling a limb back with your Hikite hand is a potentially good thing, changing angles on them can help you get them into an arm lock so you can force them down or hit hard and run.

Pulling one arm back to help project the other forwards is another potential as you want your arms working together, 2 arms against one is a key principle.

At an early stage in training you sometimes have to just do it, later on you will see a lot of reasons why things are done, give it time.

[hansenator]

Thanks for the replies.

It sounds like there are good reasons for chambering the hand. My concern is more that, when your hand is on your hip, it's not in a ready position to guard against an attack. My own experience when sparring is that, when I throw a punch at my partner, there's usually a punch coming at me as well. If my non-punching hand were pulled to my hip, I would be less able to defend against it.

I also look at other systems who don't chamber in that manner and wonder why some do and some don't but mostly I don't want to be knocked out because because my hand wasn't up guarding my face.

I realize there are some things that aren't readily apparent. Choy Li Fut for example looks kind of open at first but I've been told they're hard to get in on because of how they use their techniques. I figure karate must be similar but it's still a mystery to me.

[mal103]

Typically with Kihon then it's exact and full movements during the low to mid grades - think of it as soldiers learning how to march - when more experienced you wouldn't expect a soldier to march into battle.

Same for mid to high grades where they will do Kihon more from a free style sparring stance.

This will vary depending on style and club.

Karate is very effective and can give you everything if you are lucky enough to have a good club and train long enough - good luck!

[hawkfish]

The others gave some great replies above and one other way to look at it is, when you pull the hand back to your hip, you can also strike someone behind you with your elbow.

Also, having your hand start from your side helps you learn how to throw your punch from your hip not just using your upper body.

[wayneshin]

The term for that position “Hike Te” translates as pulling hand. Ie As previous mentioned grabbing something and pulling it as you strike. Also hand in hand with this is understanding that the term “uke” more closely translates as receive than block. So think of your “uke” as defensive techniques that involve both hands.

[mal103]

The others gave some great replies above and one other way to look at it is, when you pull the hand back to your hip, you can also strike someone behind you with your elbow.

Also, having your hand start from your side helps you learn how to throw your punch from your hip not just using your upper body.

Sorry to be picky but if I had someone behind me then I would be moving away fast and placing myself where I could see both attackers - or running like hell, unless I was completely surrounded or was grabbed from behind with someone in front, I would then be more inclined to be using feet or back of head to attack behind.

A great point about the route of the fist to the target, while the average punch is on a long arc, big hooking punch, a good MA punch will be coming fast and direct in a straight line.

[sensei8]

I’d like to welcome you to KF; glad that you’re here!!

In very general terms as to why most Karate styles chamber their hand in the mannerism that they do…imho, there is absolutely no intrinsic value at all for any practitioner of Karate, or any other style of the MA to hold your fist chambered to your hip and/or side.

Put your chambered hand wherever you feel more comfortable. Yes, the truly only thing that I would be concerned with is that your Hikite is helping you to keep your elbow against your side throughout the technique, and not flapping all around like a wounded bird.

However, in Kata, the chambered hand IS at ones hip at the completion, and at its ready position before the next technique in said Kata. What looks like a punch, might not be a punch at all in any given Kata. That’s a point you’ve made well in your OP.

Hikite is important, but only to a point, but, imho, not tremendously necessary to deliver any effective technique. Imho, the most important goal of any technique is the proper execution of hips. The hips must drive the technique at all times. Everyone in Karate does punching drills each and every day, and when you do, that’s Hikite...one punch at a time, over and over…first the left…then the right…and so on and so forth. One has to know when Hikite should or shouldn’t be used during an attack.

[hansenator]

Thank you for the explanations everyone.

If I'm understanding correctly; one purpose of pulling the hand to the hip is as a learning aid, like to teach mechanics and to keep your elbow from "flapping all around like a wounded bird". When your mechanics are sound, there's more flexibility to chamber the hand in different positions, such as in a position where you can guard your face?

So the karate police aren't going to arrest you if your punch doesn't begin and end on your hip? Except in kata where the moves are presented as they are for very specific reasons.

That would be an explanation I could be comfortable with.

When I was looking up the word hikite, I ran across an article that kind of said the same thing but couldn't tell if the author was referring to both the punching and retracting arms or just the punching arm in particular.