Your Opinion, Please.

[sensei8]

Please watch this...

Your opinions, please, and thank you, in advance.

Please understand that I'm not looking to tear her down in any shape way and/or form. Yes, she's a 7 year old black belt, and my feelings about that, aren't hidden here or anywhere, for that fact. After watching her, I might, I mean I MIGHT, reconsider my opinion of under age black belt...I MIGHT!! Imagine, as one of the posters on this YouTube page suggested, what she'll be like at 15 if she continues training, and training with that type of focus.

She's several video's up on YouTube showing her executing different Kata at different rank levels, and I did notice marked improvement in her from rank to rank.

I ask for opinions so that we can have a nice conversation, and I say that mainly to myself!!

[Wado Heretic]

I am against junior black-belts, as in my mind the black-belt denotes an acknowledgement of self-discipline and confers a lot of responsibility to the holder. Their training is now as much in their own hands, as it is in their instructors. They represent the ryu-ha proper for example. Also; I believe a black-belt should denote that the wearer has a greater capacity for violence then others, something a child is not ready to be taught about.

However; in saying that, I believe it important to acknowledge the skill of children, especially when it comes to examples such as the one shown. In that sense, I feel perhaps a black-belt with a white stripe, or a midnight blue belt would suffice. It is close to black, but you can then tell the child the difference; they have it as an acknowledgement of their ability, but they are not yet ready for the full responsibility of a black-belt, or the lessons that entails.

I personally consider black-belts more unfair to the children given them, for they face a lot of unfair judgement they should not. That girl, frankly, has better kata than many adult black-belts I have seen (Okay, she has better kata than me.) If she is the future of karate, we don't have much to fear.

[Harkon72]

This little girl's form is almost perfect, she's a good karateka. That said, she is a child. This video reminds me of Japanese musical child prodigies that came to the world's view back in the 80's. They are children, they are brilliant, but their art is all they seem to know. China is a country that is producing large numbers of very gifted athletes, and they are again very talented. But at what cost? There have been reports that these children, as young as 3 or 4 are taught that failure in form is not an option. While this child has a Dan grade; please remember that the word "Dan" is Japanese for "Man". She may be brilliant, but in many senses of the concept, she is not a martial artist.

[sensei8]

This little girl's form is almost perfect, she's a good karateka. That said, she is a child. This video reminds me of Japanese musical child prodigies that came to the world's view back in the 80's. They are children, they are brilliant, but their art is all they seem to know. China is a country that is producing large numbers of very gifted athletes, and they are again very talented. But at what cost? There have been reports that these children, as young as 3 or 4 are taught that failure in form is not an option. While this child has a Dan grade; please remember that the word "Dan" is Japanese for "Man". She may be brilliant, but in many senses of the concept, she is not a martial artist.

To the bold type above...

I don't follow what you're saying when you define Dan as being Man. I know that that's the translation, however, the world is full of females, and of them, many of them are Dan grades. Dan is an acceptable term for those practitioners who have been graded to the rank of black belt.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but, to me, she is a martial artist. A MAist is someone who practices and trains in a MA. After all, she is doing a martial art! As someone who is doing a martial art, then she is an artist...a martial artist.

I don't think age is a criteria for being a MAist.

[Harkon72]

What I mean is a Dan grade referres to an adult. To be an effective martial artist in my view, you must have the maturity to know what you are doing. You can look at a martial artist as a warrior, male or female, but sorry, not as a child. Are you telling me that that little girl knows the Bunkai to that Kata? She might as well be doing ballet, it's a series of movements to her, nothing more.

[tallgeese]

What I mean is a Dan grade referres to an adult. To be an effective martial artist in my view, you must have the maturity to know what you are doing. You can look at a martial artist as a warrior, male or female, but sorry, not as a child. Are you telling me that that little girl knows the Bunkai to that Kata? She might as well be doing ballet, it's a series of movements to her, nothing more.

You are correct. And that is fine. For you and her. Kids aren't in this to be fighters, defend themselves, cultural interest or any of the other reasons that we normally think of. That said, if they've been with it for years and have worked hard and reached a standardized level of competence why not recognize them?

As long as there is an understanding of what the "junior" in the black belt title means (to the kids, parents, and adults) then no harm no foul.

[sensei8]

What I mean is a Dan grade referres to an adult. To be an effective martial artist in my view, you must have the maturity to know what you are doing. You can look at a martial artist as a warrior, male or female, but sorry, not as a child. Are you telling me that that little girl knows the Bunkai to that Kata? She might as well be doing ballet, it's a series of movements to her, nothing more.

No, I'm not assuming anything especially since I'm not here Sensei; I've no idea if she's learning Bunkai and the like beyond the kata she's executing here. Dan as an adult reference, that I do agree. I'm of that opinion STILL!! I only refer her to being a martial artist because she's performing an art as an artist...the kata isn't being performed by itself...she's executing it, and executing it quite well.

"A person who produces works in any of the arts that are primarily subject to aesthetic criteria."

And...

Martial Artist...

"Any of the traditional forms of Oriental self-defense or combat that utilize physical skill and coordination without weapons..."

Of course, our definitions of these words above would be more deeper than what a dictionary could ever provide.

When I was a JBB, from the ages of 13 to 18, what was I?? I pray that I was too a MAist back then, and my Dai-Soke would tell you that I was too!!

If this girl was in Shindokan, and at the age of 7 years old, she'd only be an Ikkyu, and then, if appropriate, she'd be a JBB at 13, and wouldn't be considered for the testing cycle of Shodan until she turned 18 years old. And she'd not be referred to as a "Master" either, not even close!!

[sensei8]

What I mean is a Dan grade referres to an adult. To be an effective martial artist in my view, you must have the maturity to know what you are doing. You can look at a martial artist as a warrior, male or female, but sorry, not as a child. Are you telling me that that little girl knows the Bunkai to that Kata? She might as well be doing ballet, it's a series of movements to her, nothing more.

You are correct. And that is fine. For you and her. Kids aren't in this to be fighters, defend themselves, cultural interest or any of the other reasons that we normally think of. That said, if they've been with it for years and have worked hard and reached a standardized level of competence why not recognize them?

As long as there is an understanding of what the "junior" in the black belt title means (to the kids, parents, and adults) then no harm no foul.

Solid post!!

[wagnerk]

I keep on swaying between the question of junior/kid black belts.

She may not have the maturity of that of an adult but then again the do these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4wsMDNpWw

Added to that, what is a black belt? There's no universal standard, even within the same art/style, let alone across the whole spectrum.

[wayneshin]

Can't help thinking that 2nd clip will live on.

I've never heard the term Dan translated as man. I've always understood it to mean level and some quick work with google has confirmed that. I also came across phase and stage which would be a similar concept.