If I can kick your rear, I'm a better martial artist.

[DWx]

I think it depends on your definition of martial artist and what you want to include under that label.

For me, in my humble opinion, it is a combination of 2 things: physical ability and knowledge and understanding. A person can be an incredible fighter and really tough to beat but it may just be that they are naturally athletic. Likewise someone can be extremely knowledgeable and have a great understanding but it's all theoretical and they lack the physical tools to use what they know. For me, the best martial artist is the one that has both elements.

My point is that "winning" can't be the only method of deciding skill. It's how and why you won that's important as well. If you're just using your ONE technique that is your best...I'm not impressed. If you're able to win in multiple ways with multiple options...I'll concede you're better

This is a great answer!

[Harkon72]

What makes a Martial Artist? I like this quote; "Don't fear a man that has practiced a thousand techniques, fear the man who has practiced one technique a thousand times."

[ps1]

What makes a Martial Artist? I like this quote; "Don't fear a man that has practiced a thousand techniques, fear the man who has practiced one technique a thousand times."

Different than what I'm saying. My point is that your "one move" could simply be matching up against my weakness. But supplant me with Joe Blow, who doesn't have that same weakness and your "one move" becomes irrelevant. So I'm speaking more toward an ability to adapt, not the idea of training the heck out of a move.

Now, if you're "one move" is a side kick and I start to defend it well, then you switch the set-up and still manage to use the side kick...that's a different story and speaks more toward the idiom you're citing.

This is classic in Judo. You know Rhonda Rousey is going to use an armbar. So you learn how to defend it from side control really well...and you do defend it. But then she switches her hips and flows to another angle and ends up with it anyway. That's what the idiom your citing is talking about. Cause I can tell you, if a person practices 100,000 front kicks just in the air with no timing scenario or set-up involved, it's still going to be mostly useless to them.

[Hawkmoon]

hmmm !

I hold in my mind;

Fight the 'man' not the grade!

Consider every opponent as the one that will beat you and don't let them!

but more than anything ...

Don't be a threat!

Any conflict is the result one side or the other feeling threatened, the reason for that feeling, at that moment, simply not important in any way whatsoever, then accept that fact and deal with it responsibly.

I read a phrase somewhere a while back it was part of an add for an upcoming fight, it read:

"Don't fear the man who can do 1,000 kicks at once, fear the man that can do one kick 1,000 times!"

Bravado !

Ego!

Call it what you want, it was said as a challenge, something to make you think you are about to see some super human feat of combat!

Don't be a threat.

[Shizentai]

"All that matters is whether or not what you do is effective in a street fight," is the nice version.

"I can probably kick your rear, so your rank doesn't matter," is the less nice version.

Agree or disagree? The true measure of a martial artist is whether or not they can beat you in a fight? The. End.

I have my own opinions, but I'd like yours.

KY

BU-DO

Okazaki sensei often speaks of this term that we roughly translated in English as "martial art." Yes, if you look up the two characters separately in a dictionary, you'll see that "BU" translates as "warrior" or "military force" (the "martial" part), and that "DO" translates to "road" or "way" or "philosophy" (more like the "art" side). However, as foreigners I think it's easy for us to lose touch with the origins of these terms, especially in the case of the character for "BU," which dates back thousands of years to ancient China.

If you know a bit about Chinese characters, you may notice that "BU" (or "WU" in Chinese) is actually the character for "stop" and "spear" combined into one unit. That is to say, "budo" or "martial arts" is often also translated as "art of stopping conflict." In fact, there is written doccumentation of this interpretation of the character being commonly used as far back as 481BC.

What you talked about in your post is therefore irrelevant to martial arts. A person can kick all the butts in the world, but if that person does not also seek to end conflicts rather than start them, he is not a martial artist, he is just some bully.

[IcemanSK]

I have a friend who is the Senior in his Art who's famous for saying, "I can teach a dog to fight. MA is about much more than that." MA is a holistic endeavor. If all we focus on is who can beat who, we'd all quit the first time we lost...So, somewhere around white belt.

[bushido_man96]

ps1, jaypo, and AdamKralic have all made very good statements, and I don't think I could add more to it. Very well put!

As mentioned, it depends on what you are seeking in your Martial Arts training. Lots of people could care less if they ever fight or not. And on the other hand, there are plenty of fighters out there that could beat a Martial Artist, but aren't Martial Artists themselves.

Fighting and self-defense is part of it. But not all of it.

[Harkon72]

I'll play Devil's advocate here; if your practice has no fighting or defense in mind, then is it a martial art at all? I thought that combat effectiveness was what martial arts were for, by definition. I know of a so called Wado Ryu Karate master who doesn't believe in teaching the applications of kata at all. His students are taught the moves and that's it. I asked him about this and he said "Bunkai is for Gangsters." So what he teaches is not karate at all in my opinion. Many people train for stylized competition or braking things for the sake of it, but at the end of the day, if your art has no martial application; it isn't a martial art, it's a simple as that. My present training is in Aikido, the philosophy is not to interfere with your opponent and not to directly oppose their attack. But in free randori; the attacker can make any attack they want. You are trained to apply the principals of Aikido to defend against and neutralize the threat. We train to respond to any attack and most of the time, from multiple attackers. That's why it's a martial art, we don't take the form or type of attack for granted. If there is no application that can be applied in combat, then I'm sorry you are practicing stylized aerobics, nothing more.

[Archimoto]

"All that matters is whether or not what you do is effective in a street fight," is the nice version.

"I can probably kick your rear, so your rank doesn't matter," is the less nice version.

Agree or disagree? The true measure of a martial artist is whether or not they can beat you in a fight? The. End.

I have my own opinions, but I'd like yours.

KY

BU-DO

Okazaki sensei often speaks of this term that we roughly translated in English as "martial art." Yes, if you look up the two characters separately in a dictionary, you'll see that "BU" translates as "warrior" or "military force" (the "martial" part), and that "DO" translates to "road" or "way" or "philosophy" (more like the "art" side). However, as foreigners I think it's easy for us to lose touch with the origins of these terms, especially in the case of the character for "BU," which dates back thousands of years to ancient China.

If you know a bit about Chinese characters, you may notice that "BU" (or "WU" in Chinese) is actually the character for "stop" and "spear" combined into one unit. That is to say, "budo" or "martial arts" is often also translated as "art of stopping conflict." In fact, there is written doccumentation of this interpretation of the character being commonly used as far back as 481BC.

What you talked about in your post is therefore irrelevant to martial arts. A person can kick all the butts in the world, but if that person does not also seek to end conflicts rather than start them, he is not a martial artist, he is just some bully.

A great point eloquently made !!

[sensei8]

Looking at the title of this thread..."If I can kick your rear, I'm a better martial artist." Well, if I survive, then I'd say that you won...THIS TIME!!

No one is suppose to win, sport or real, each and every time; the odds are against that. Sure, teams can go undefeated in a sport venue, but that's because it took a group to achieve.

In an individual sport, the odds favor that that practitioner will lose...eventually!

Not always does sport venue victories translate into street victories. Why? Sports venue victories have rules and street venue victories don't; hence, it's anyone's game. One mistake, no matter the venue, can cost you dearly.

The world of parameters is so vast, that it seems to me that those parameters live inside of a bubble of "what if?", and "if" is an infinity of possibilities for either one.

Sport venues allow you to think, and street venues allow you to respond/react. However, these two maxims translate as the difference between victory and defeat...Mizu No Kokoro [Mind like the water] AND Tsuki No Kokoro [Mind like the moon]. If either of these maxims are askew within you, then my friend, you're going to be in a lot of hot water with your attack on the street AND with your opponent on the competition floor.

Just because you beat me today on either venue, imho, this doesn't mean that you're a better MAist and/or person and/or fighter and/or whatever than me. No!! It just means you were able to capitalize on my mistake(s) to your advantage...this time, next time might favor me, should we meet up again.

Either way, I'd rather lose at every sport venue on the planet, than to lose at a street venue just one time. That one lose in a street venue could be my life!!

A white belt can score on a black belt...big deal...worse things have been known to have happened. A martial artist can score on another martial artist...big deal...none is better than the other...stuff happens all of the time. I score on Greg, our Kancho,...he scores on me...so on and so forth...happens with us all of the time, and even though I've got 6 months seniority on Greg, it doesn't mean that I'm better MAist than him...things shouldn't happen, but things do happen.

"Agree or disagree? The true measure of a martial artist is whether or not they can beat you in a fight? The. End."

The end only counts when you finally shed your mortal coil!! Before that, it's anyone's game!! So, I disagree with the above quoted sentiment. What's more important? The victory on the competition floor or the victory in the street/fight? BOTH!! The first venue can translate successfully into the second venue, and vise versa...in which I believe that any outcome is up to the individual through and through.

Abilities dictate to either venue, and as an afterthought, train hard, and hopefully nothing fatal ever happens!!