Dan Testing, My Ego, and Some Philosophy.

[mal103]

When you see rubbish "above" you then you have a few options, stay and train, get on with it, live with it. Or move to another association or start up on your own.

I trained under someone for a few years and slowly realised that rank and money were more important than standards. Someone who has only been in a Dojo for a couple of hours should not be grading, same should not be shown their requirements on the grading day, similar should not be shown what is needed to pass the next grade on the grading day, Bitter experience....

I now have a mix of students, some I am getting ready to grade under a more senior Sensei, some who I am going to grade, some whom I am not going to grade until they get a move on, some who I train who will get graded (given rank) by someone else.

At the end of the day we have to shut up and train as proof is really on the floor, to prance around with belts and badges to show where we think we are is stupid, some Black belts can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag but some Brown belts can...

The real ones will realise where everyone is on their journey, if you are having trouble with rank envy then it is your problem, if people are not where they should be then this reflects on the graders but may be realised by the graded eventually.

In short - shut up and train - in the nicest possible way...

[sensei8]

Sensei 8... what you're describing is exactly what I'm wanting for my style. I'd rather be a 3rd Dan for life, and know that I deserve that rank, than be a 9th Dan surrounded by a motley crew of people who's skill - my own included! - is truly unknown.

You gave me the perfect answer. But while I recognize your style must be Japanese, I'm not familiar with all the terms you use (I'm from a Korean style). If you don't mind sharing, what is your style? Shotokan? Karate? Anyway, it sounds really challenging in the way I'd want martial arts to be challenging, and I wish I had the authority/say-so to bring that kind of impartial, straightforward, rigor to my organization... which is big, and well-known, unfortunately.

Thank you for your answer!

KY

Shindokan Saitou-ryu; it's Shuri-te and Okinawa-te based.

It's an Okinawan style that's 85% hands and 15% feet, albeit, all kicks are stomach level and lower; no high kicks. Tuite [Joint Locks] and Kyusho jitsu [Pressure Points] are the core of our style, as well as Tegumi [Grappling] to top it off.

[bushido_man96]

I'm testing for my next rank of black - my first rank test in almost 25 years. During that time I went back to grad school to get my PhD (which was NOT conducive to training, let me tell you!), and have been teaching karate in various contexts (including running a program at the University level). Now I've returned to the studio I taught at in the 1990s to teach again and to train up for my next rank. It makes me really happy to reconnect with this community and help out my old friend (the owner of the studio, who is a 9th degree master).

But I'm having some problems with the other black belts. I am certainly not the highest ranked black belt in class anymore... I undertested and am now ranked well below my skill level, after some 30 years of teaching and training. So it would be tough enough on my ego to have so many black belts lining up in front of me in class, and giving me orders and "advice" as it were... but the hardest part is that... most of them sort of suck.

There, I said it.

What do you mean, they suck? They aren't great athletes, and don't compete at a high level? No power or technique? Do you watch them test, and do they meet the testing requirements?

It seems like black belts are awarded more and more nowadays based upon persistence and not performance. One of the students I gave their first karate lesson to, ever, is now three ranks of black belt higher than I am (and makes it known that this is the case), but does not show a commensurate level of skill. The difference is simply that she continued to test while I did not. And I grant her that! She WAS more consistent in her testing than I was! But what about ability?

Sometimes, this might be the case. Not all Martial Artists have the ability to be great athletes. Most of us have full time jobs, and families that take away from our training time. I'm a 4th dan, and there are some younger and more athletic 3rd dans in my school that probably look like better Martial Artists than me, a pudgy 36 year old who doesn't get to train a whole lot.

Being a black belt is about consistency and perseverance, among other things. Do consider that. I'm not saying that time in should guarantee a grade, but as we get older, and wait longer for each testing, our physical abilities might start to decline. I know mine have.

I worry about what it would look like to an uninitiated stranger to walk into the studio and watch a class. "How come those people in the front of the class aren't the best martial artists?" they might wonder. And I wonder the same thing. I understand making some allowances for getting older (I sure am!) or being injured, but other than that, shouldn't your high-ranked black belts perform in a much superior manner to your lower ranked black belts?

Well, it just depends. Like I said, everyone is different. Do we all get the same black belt? No. What makes the Martial Arts different from other endeavors or team activities is that we move at our own pace, take our own journey, and compete within ourselves to become better than we were, not necessarily better than everyone else.

The upper ranked belt tests in our (very large) organization (which I would rather not name, thank you very much) don't even involve the performance of any martial arts. From Master rank on up, it's about service and having being certified in a number of seminar classes, and it's based on years spent in training. There is no actual performance criteria.

Now this, I don't necessarily agree with, but I think there are other organizations that are like this, too. But, each organization view things differently, and perhaps think that the higher ranks aren't as much about physical performance as they are about matriculating the style. But, in my opinion, I do think physical aspects of testing should still take place, even if it is simply a demonstration of all the criteria of the style. But that's just me. (I also don't understand the aversion to naming the organization you are a part of).

So. I wonder what other schools out there are like. Are your tests ability-based through the ranks of black? That is, if you can't "do stuff," will you still pass? Are your instructors hard on what qualifies as "doing stuff" properly, or will they pass students if they "try hard" or have been there a long time? Is this what you feel testing should be based on? At what level should actual performance stop being the main criterion?

Our tests are still based on the ability to perform the curriculum. I've seen some older black belts in my org that don't perform as well physically, but that's part of getting older. Its not for me to say they shouldn't have their rank because they got older. My instructor is pretty hard on the technical aspects of our style. Good technique is important. But it doesn't have to be the highest, or the fastest, or the best technique. But it should look right.

Could you elaborate more on what you mean by "doing stuff?" I can do all the basics pretty well. 360 degree jumping kicks are harder for me now. I can teach them, but they are hard to demonstrate since I weigh 265 and have knees that hurt. Should I be more athletic and be able to jump around and do flying kicks because of my elevated dan rank?

To be clear, I always line up appropriately, I always pick up targets and the like when paired with a higher ranked black belt, I always show proper deference and respect in response to their corrections (be they useful or less useful). It's only in my head that I get irked. I would say, "well, it's my own fault for not testing enough - I'll just test up to the rank I deserve!" but there is a four year wait in between tests, so I will be unlikely to catch up to these people who continue to be awarded belts for taking seminars and just sticking around long enough. I don't know if I feel like I should be promoted or they should be DEmoted. Really, I just think they shouldn't have been promoted this high in the first place.

I think this is, as you mentioned, probably more of your ego than anything else. Now I will say this; if I were present in your school, and higher ranked than you, but aware of the time you have in and the knowledge you have, I'd have more respect for you. But I'm not big on the whole rank/respect/hierarchy stuff. I'll be the first to pick up pads and put them away. I don't care where I line up in a class. I just want to take the class.

Maybe those in your class should not have been promoted. Or maybe they should have. In the end, its up to the head instructors and the testing panel judges than anything else. The question is, do you trust their judgement? If so, then keep on keepin' on. If not, then perhaps its time to move onto a different org.

I know martial arts aren't about lording your rank over others, or about attaining "prizes" of rank that make you feel important. I know this. Believe it or not, this is more about what I perceive to be disrespect to the entire style: belts awarded undeservedly to retain students, or to reward long-time students for loyalty and persistence; the awkwardness and oddity of high-ranking students mismatched to their ability level and lower-ranking students with much higher ability levels unable to proceed quicker/further due to strict rules about how frequently one can be examined. It's my sense of justice that I think is being tapped into here - I think I just want everybody to look like the rank they hold... and unfortunately, since I'm now part of this weird universe, my stupid ego has gotten involved.

I think this happens in a lot of places in the MA world. I think things like this is why so many organizations have splintered. Someone decides to do things their way, so they move on. Then someone they teach decides to do things their way, and they splinter. And so goes the MA world.

Ok, go ahead and yell at me a little if you must, but also maybe give me some thoughts on what your systems look like in this regard, and whether you feel belt tests should be merit-based or effort-based, and some advice on how I can crush down my ego a bit and be a better black belt even in an environment I find a little unfair. Unfortunately, I can't just find another studio because a) the organizational rules are exactly the same at all other studios of this type, b) I don't want to change styles, and there aren't a ton of other studios that teach my style to being with, and c) I DO like my old studio and the master instructor and I'd rather work this out in my head and be loyal than stomp off somewhere else.

I think black belts should be some of both, merit-based and effort-based. Something you haven't really touched on that is important for the black belt ranks is the person's ability to pass on what they have learned. This should be considered part of the equation, as well. Many of us mortals have a max level that we tend to tap out at physically. There just isn't much to be done about this. Also, as we get older, our bodies start to get older and decline, as well. Such is life. So as older black belts move up, what is important, the physical side, or the mental?

This has been a fun conversation, and I don't mean to just sound like I'm browbeating you. This kind of thought process is normal, I think. When it comes to ego, the best thing you can do is come to class, work hard, and do what you can to learn and make yourself better. Eventually, you will get what is coming to you, and in the end, all things will work themselves out.