Does strength increase power does strength increase damage?

[SpeedKills]

Take a donkey kick, its quite fast, it commits some body weight but not that much, but its really freaking strong, using the buttock directly.

Then take a rear cross punch, its faster, it delivers more body-weight, its not as strong, but is "probably" more powerful.

If you throw a right cross to someones knee, its unlikely to do any damage, if you throw a donkey kick to someones knee it might break that knee! Since the donkey kick is less powerful or about the same power as a right cross then it must have been the strength that made the difference!?

To the head the punch will probably more likely get a KO, but the donkey kick can get a KO too its not that far behind. (it may be ahead IKD) but the strength of the kick here "seems" to make up for its lack of speed and weight aka power.

To the body again about equal.

My point is, the damage a strike does isnt just to do with speed, weight and power, strength makes a difference and the more strength the better.

What do you guys think?

[ps1]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

[SpeedKills]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases?

[sensei8]

It's not always what target one hits, but it's more of HOW the target was it!!

Not all close range techniques are executed fast or with any great mass behind said technique(s) to inflict any degree of damage to said target. No. Because ones in close range to any given chosen target, I must know how to hit said target to achieve the damage necessary.

I whole heartedly concur with ps1 when he says..."You increase the Force you produce"...by HOW you do 'it'!!

[Drew]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases?

Because the force of the impact isn't only supplied by you, it is also supplied by the person being struck. Typically back kicks are only landed or effective against someone who is moving towards you. They themselves are supplying lots of mass and velocity. Of course, any strike will be more effective when the opponent is moving into it, but it is pretty much the only way to hurt someone with a back kick, short of using a spin, or a specific and specialized kind of switch.

This is easily demonstrated by back kicking a stationary heavy bag, then back kicking it again as it swings in to meet your kick. The kick has significantly more impact when the bag (our hapless opponent) swings into it.

I would also like to point out that it is the rapid acceleration of tissue caused by the force that hurts people, and I think you will get a better grip on this if you learn about acceleration and vectors in general.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Drew

[sensei8]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases?

Because the force of the impact isn't only supplied by you, it is also supplied by the person being struck. Typically back kicks are only landed or effective against someone who is moving towards you. They themselves are supplying lots of mass and velocity. Of course, any strike will be more effective when the opponent is moving into it, but it is pretty much the only way to hurt someone with a back kick, short of using a spin, or a specific and specialized kind of switch.

This is easily demonstrated by back kicking a stationary heavy bag, then back kicking it again as it swings in to meet your kick. The kick has significantly more impact when the bag (our hapless opponent) swings into it.

I would also like to point out that it is the acceleration of tissue caused by the force that hurts people, and I think you will get a better grip on this if you learn about acceleration and vectors in general.

Solid post!!

[Archimoto]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases?

Because the force of the impact isn't only supplied by you, it is also supplied by the person being struck. Typically back kicks are only landed or effective against someone who is moving towards you. They themselves are supplying lots of mass and velocity. Of course, any strike will be more effective when the opponent is moving into it, but it is pretty much the only way to hurt someone with a back kick, short of using a spin, or a specific and specialized kind of switch.

This is easily demonstrated by back kicking a stationary heavy bag, then back kicking it again as it swings in to meet your kick. The kick has significantly more impact when the bag (our hapless opponent) swings into it.

I would also like to point out that it is the acceleration of tissue caused by the force that hurts people, and I think you will get a better grip on this if you learn about acceleration and vectors in general.

Solid post!!

Ditto!!!

I totally agree also that 'how' you do it directly affects the equation of POWER. For instance, physical characteristics (ie, weight) can inform the MASS in a strike, delivery of a strike can inform its VELOCITY (most practitioners tense when trying to throw fast when in fact it's best to stay loose and relaxed). I also would like to emphasize EFFICACY because power without efficacy in the martial arts is relatively pointless. In this regard the practitioner and their execution of a technique and understanding it's proper Timing and RANGE is hugely important. That is why I love sparring because it helps hone all of the above. In MA delivering proper POWER to a moving and fully uncooperative object is in itself a science.

[bushido_man96]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases?

Because the force of the impact isn't only supplied by you, it is also supplied by the person being struck. Typically back kicks are only landed or effective against someone who is moving towards you. They themselves are supplying lots of mass and velocity. Of course, any strike will be more effective when the opponent is moving into it, but it is pretty much the only way to hurt someone with a back kick, short of using a spin, or a specific and specialized kind of switch.

This is easily demonstrated by back kicking a stationary heavy bag, then back kicking it again as it swings in to meet your kick. The kick has significantly more impact when the bag (our hapless opponent) swings into it.

I would also like to point out that it is the rapid acceleration of tissue caused by the force that hurts people, and I think you will get a better grip on this if you learn about acceleration and vectors in general.

Very nicely put.

When it comes to these techniques, I think its also important to think about how the power is generated. The power linkage of a cross starts at the ground, and goes up through the leg to the body, and out the arm and fist. With a hook punch, you get some of the same factors, but you add in the added affect of rotating the striking tool around the hips. I imagine this changes things, too.

[ps1]

Power is Work over time. The faster the work is done, the more power. An example is lifting a 1000lb weight. A person who can lift that weight in 1 second has more power than a person who can lift that weight in 3 seconds. In general, what we mean when we say "power" actually isn't power at all. What we mean is Force (in physics terms).

Force is equal to mass * velocity / time.

Strength can aid in two ways:

1. Increase your mass

2. Increase your speed

Therefore you increase the Force you produce.

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases?

There are a number of other variables that go into damage caused.

-Movement of the opponent

-Size of the striking surface

-Opponent's propensity toward injury

-You can probably name 30 others

Damage is not a good indicator of force. It simply indicates that force was involved; a huge weakness of striking in general (a topic for another day).

All kicks and punches should have your body mass behind them. But what is more important is how much of that mass gets translated directly into the striking surface.

The closer striking surface is to the point of origination, the more mass will be transferred into the strike. Since the point of origination on all strikes is the ground and the legs are closer to the ground, there is less energy lost during the transfer. This isn't a really fair comparison, though, because the muscles of the body have the ability to add energy to the system during motion (the energy used during fiber recruitment). They both have rotational elements and just too many movements and intricacies to accurately measure.. a quick internet search will give you a plethora of different results on this topic.

A more fair comparison is to simply isolate the specific weapon. A leg vs an arm. The arm usually has far less mass than the leg. So the leg wins in that regard. The velocity of the two can be nearly the same. This is why kicking tends to have more force behind it.

If you have a 15kg leg and a 5kg arm, the arm moves at 10m/s and the leg moves at 7m/s you get (15x 7=105N for the kick and 50N for the punch) That's assuming a 30% difference in the velocities. I've seen some people that have kicks as fast as punches.

This is where your original question comes in. "Does strength training help?" The answer is, yes, but it would need to be strength training that focuses on becoming fast, not just strong. Powerlifting or Olympic lifting are ideal for this type of goal. But they are not good for endurance. Again, another subject there.