The Meaning of Rank

[cardinal95]

I feel you are in a similar place that i was whereyou dont fully agree with the standards and can no longer accept it just because Sensei says so...

You are correct, I feel that I am at a bit of a crossroads with this.

I probably should add a little more context as well. Though this student is the best fighter in the dojo (of 5 people), his control is terrible and his technique is mediocre. He has about 3 moves he relies on (which is sometimes all it takes) but my issue is where the focus is. We have never been a sparring-centric dojo the focus has always been on molding a well-rounded martial artist. My issue, for this particular student, is he focuses mainly on fighting and doesn't put the same amount of energy into the other requirements. Though he is strong and fearless (which is commendable) I think he suffers a bit from the "big fish in a small pond" syndrome.

With that said, I think he has amazing potential to be an unbelievable martial artist and that because he isn't being held to a high standard, for things like rank, and because he is being compared to many of us (who are much older with old injuries, etc.) he is being robbed in way. Instead of stroking his ego we should be refining and polishing him, if that makes sense. Which is why I think its important to focus on the individual. In short, I don't think he is working (or being taught) to his potential.

[CredoTe]

Thanks for the insight Wastelander! I can definitely appreciated the adjustment for standards when encountering certain learning or physical disabilities. But the competing thing still has me weary...this may just be because it was emphasized that our school never promotes based on tournaments/fighting records, though this may be changing apparently.

To re-direct for a moment, it does seem as if you are discussing measuring the student against them-self/individual ability not necessarily the ability of others, am I understanding your opinion correctly?

That's the way we do it, yes. That said, I have also trained at a judo club that promoted based almost entirely based on competitive performance. I was told when I started training there (as a green belt) that I knew more than enough material for a brown belt, but I would have to be beating brown belts in competition to be promoted from green to brown. I'm a perpetually bad competitor, so that never happened

Absolutely... Rank should never be used to compare oneself to another student. That's one of the first lessons regarding rank that we teach to new students because it's natural to use it that way, but was never meant to be.

Rank is a privilege, not a right, and should only be used as a general guide to denote skill level, knowledge of the art, wisdom with the art, and years of experience in the art for a particular student. While any dojo with half a decent reputation will have a set of rank/curriculum standards, they are very often modified slightly per each individual student s/he can meet individual goals.

[hammer]

I probably should add a little more context as well. Though this student is the best fighter in the dojo (of 5 people), his control is terrible and his technique is mediocre. He has about 3 moves he relies on (which is sometimes all it takes) but my issue is where the focus is.

By what measures is he the best fighter? Is it mainly because of innate physical ability? Is he the best because he can always score points in a match?

I've known of plenty of young fighters who can do a few things really well, which works until someone figures out how to counter/avoid, then their sparring performance goes downhill fast.

[cardinal95]

I probably should add a little more context as well. Though this student is the best fighter in the dojo (of 5 people), his control is terrible and his technique is mediocre. He has about 3 moves he relies on (which is sometimes all it takes) but my issue is where the focus is.

By what measures is he the best fighter? Is it mainly because of innate physical ability? Is he the best because he can always score points in a match?

I've known of plenty of young fighters who can do a few things really well, which works until someone figures out how to counter/avoid, then their sparring performance goes downhill fast.

I would go more with innate physical ability. Best fighter as in he is young and strong while the rest of us ladies are over 30 with existing injuries (making us a bit more hesitant to fight like we used to). He is fitter than the rest of us which lets him go harder and longer. He has only participated in a couple tournaments. He performed very well in one and mediocre in another. When I spar him I feel like I am sparring a boxer more than a karateka. He hits hard and fast and he has a great ability to get in and out fast. Accuracy and control are definitely something he could improve on.

[mal103]

By not putting as much effort into the other aspects of the art then he is not an all round MAist, it's no good just being able to box clever.

My experience included people coming up to Brown belt a few years after I had been there and being graded a lot easier, I have put my students up for gradings and they all went through similar tests to myself, then along comes Sensei's mate and another instructors kids who got "given" rank.

There were excuses of age but they were only 5 years older than myself, also excuses of students showing the right spirit - again trying to compensate for poor standards.

I think you may have to talk privately with your Sensei but if they still think they are totally correct you will be then left with 2 choices.

[cardinal95]

I think you may have to talk privately with your Sensei but if they still think they are totally correct you will be then left with 2 choices.

Its tough because I hate to question him. I was brought up that "Sensei knows best." I also just came back after a lengthy hiatus and told him I really wanted to train to promote (for various reasons) to my next kyu. He is promoting me and answering all my questions, getting me back up to speed, etc. when I know there are others that think I shouldn't promote because I took so much time off. But he assured me that my foundation is still better than those who trained consistently while I was away (and I think he knows I'm training and studying every day). I also like to train everything, so that I am well-rounded. Whether its kumite, basics, kata, sparring etc, which I think he likes. He also does not stroke this other student's ego like the other assistant instructors. The assistant instructors have this kid on a very high pedestal while Sensei acknowledges lack of control/technique etc. and targets where there is room to improve.

I guess I'm hesitant to talk to him about this specifically because he knows my situation, my goals etc and is catering the training so that I reach my goals. Maybe he is doing this with the other student as well (without my knowledge), but from the outside perspective it just doesn't seem that way. I hate these kind of politics in a dojo, its so off-putting and it takes focus of what is important...its just very hard to focus on yourself and what you are doing when there seems to be some sort of measurement/comparison with everyone else. I simply don't remember it being this way, I remember training as hard as possible to exceed my personal best, and then rank would come.

Edited July 12, 2015 by cardinal95

[mal103]

If he's a good instructor/Sensei then he will be gradually "fixing" everyone's training or bad habits.

I think that the "Sensei knows best" approach is an old fashioned way that was correct for many Sensei but unfortunately a few of the others shouldn't have been followed like gods as they are still only human. At a certain level we should question everything, investigate it ourselves and try to train with different Sensei to broaden our knowledge.

I am training someone now who has come back after 10 years away and she has just graded 1st Kyu, it took a while to bring the level back up but there was enough remembered to work with. It's a big step to go back so well done.

Thinking about this i'm now more inclined to think that you should concentrate on your own journey, this can be tough sometimes as the modern approach seems to be to compare and look at who is better etc. Would be nice to just get on and train sometimes!

Maybe as a suggestion you could mention this students lack of control as a slight concern and see what the Sensei thinks, this is not a direct complaint but you have a right to point this out before someone is hurt.

He may tell you to mind your own business though.

[cardinal95]

If he's a good instructor/Sensei then he will be gradually "fixing" everyone's training or bad habits.

I think that the "Sensei knows best" approach is an old fashioned way that was correct for many Sensei but unfortunately a few of the others shouldn't have been followed like gods as they are still only human. At a certain level we should question everything, investigate it ourselves and try to train with different Sensei to broaden our knowledge.

I am training someone now who has come back after 10 years away and she has just graded 1st Kyu, it took a while to bring the level back up but there was enough remembered to work with. It's a big step to go back so well done.

Thinking about this i'm now more inclined to think that you should concentrate on your own journey, this can be tough sometimes as the modern approach seems to be to compare and look at who is better etc. Would be nice to just get on and train sometimes!

Maybe as a suggestion you could mention this students lack of control as a slight concern and see what the Sensei thinks, this is not a direct complaint but you have a right to point this out before someone is hurt.

He may tell you to mind your own business though.

Its tough because I am one of the assistant instructors as well, so as much as I'd LOVE to just focus on me the students are also my concern to a certain extent. I have actually mentioned the control thing to Sensei before, and he agreed he needs to work on control, and he even said that is why this student is at the rank he is at (meaning mid-rank and not advanced). I took a pretty nasty blow to the shin from him two days before a tournament, I was a bit nervous about competing after that since the pain was still there but I just got on with it. Which is why I believe (as a teacher) that focusing on basics and kata and certain kumite drills should be practiced with him more, to help him develop more control, subsequently bringing him up in rank based on those requirements as well (2 birds one stone). Its definitely been revealed this past week that this is a point of contention amongst the assistant instructors, I don't think he is ready, one woman hesitantly thinks he could be ready but not because of the sheet requirements and the other woman thinks he is 100% ready and has been "the most prepared" and ready for a awhile now. At the end of the day its all up to Sensei in the end so its a moot point. My biggest thing is I think he can be better then where he is at right now. He'd be moving from blue to green (the exact half way mark for kyu) so it is an important step for a karateka, one that shouldn't be taken lightly (in my opinion).

[cardinal95]

If he's a good instructor/Sensei then he will be gradually "fixing" everyone's training or bad habits.

I think that the "Sensei knows best" approach is an old fashioned way that was correct for many Sensei but unfortunately a few of the others shouldn't have been followed like gods as they are still only human. At a certain level we should question everything, investigate it ourselves and try to train with different Sensei to broaden our knowledge.

I am training someone now who has come back after 10 years away and she has just graded 1st Kyu, it took a while to bring the level back up but there was enough remembered to work with. It's a big step to go back so well done.

Thinking about this i'm now more inclined to think that you should concentrate on your own journey, this can be tough sometimes as the modern approach seems to be to compare and look at who is better etc. Would be nice to just get on and train sometimes!

Maybe as a suggestion you could mention this students lack of control as a slight concern and see what the Sensei thinks, this is not a direct complaint but you have a right to point this out before someone is hurt.

He may tell you to mind your own business though.

Its tough because I am one of the assistant instructors as well, so as much as I'd LOVE to just focus on me the students are also my concern to a certain extent. I have actually mentioned the control thing to Sensei before, and he agreed he needs to work on control, and he even said that is why this student is at the rank he is at (meaning mid-rank and not advanced). I took a pretty nasty blow to the shin from him two days before a tournament, I was a bit nervous about competing after that since the pain was still there but I just got on with it. Which is why I believe (as a teacher) that focusing on basics and kata and certain kumite drills should be practiced with him more, to help him develop more control, subsequently bringing him up in rank based on those requirements as well (2 birds one stone). Its definitely been revealed this past week that this is a point of contention amongst the assistant instructors, I don't think he is ready, one woman hesitantly thinks he could be ready but not because of the sheet requirements and the other woman thinks he is 100% ready and has been "the most prepared" and ready for a awhile now. At the end of the day its all up to Sensei in the end so its a moot point. My biggest thing is I think he can be better then where he is at right now. He'd be moving from blue to green (the exact half way mark for kyu) so it is an important step for a karateka, one that shouldn't be taken lightly (in my opinion).

[hammer]

Are you concerned that your training will suffer if you stick to your opinion on this student? If that isn't the case then I wouldn't worry...I'd just let my opinion be known to Sensei and then let Sensei decide how he wants to handle things. As long as everyone can respectfully agree to disagree and can train and be trained to the best of their ability then all is good...I think...