Disrespectful student/parent

[Spartacus Maximus]

The most difficult thing legitimate martial arts teachers have to deal with is commercial schools and the consumer mentality. The popular idea of a dojo comes from how commercial schools (McDojo) present themselves .

The consumer mentality is material-based. People expect a material reward for everything they achieve, no matter how minor. Progress and advancement must be tangible for most people to understand. They assimilate their achievement to the belt and come to see it as a goal. They also want and need something to show. Then, gaining the next belt becomes more important than actually grasping new skills.

Taking a long time to reach the next belt feels like being held back a grade in school and feels like failure. This is because it is very difficult to accept that gaining skill takes a long time. Mastery takes even longer. Without a belt, they think they are not progressing because they have nothing to show.

Nowadays it is nearly impossible to teach without belt. If you tried to teach without belts and made sure each student actually took the time necessary for them to gain skill, you would be left with very few indeed. The majority is too soft, too impatient to understand that it takes time.

My dojo only has 3 belts before shodan and I remained a white belt for nearly eight months before I was told that I had advanced and would be judged for it on that same day. That would never work in most dojo out there, most do in fact get bored or discouraged if they are not tested or promoted after just a month or two training twice a week. You just cannot expect the average martial arts student to shut up and practise for months until you see enough improvement to reach the next level. The idea that skill progress in martial arts is personal and requires sustained effort over a long time is very difficult for people who are used to and expect instant results after a certain time.[/b]

[jaypo]

I agree. It's part of the "instant gratification" generation. I'm about to turn 40, and I could care less about my belt color. I always tell people that complain about rank that I'd rather be a white belt that can defeat a black belt than the black belt that can be defeated by a white belt. I train to learn everything I can and to perfect what I learn. I had set a goal in my teens to obtain a black belt, but I didn't set a time frame because I wanted to feel like I earned it thru my hard work. And I did.

I would personally be okay with training without a belt. But I also love the tradition in my art(s). Obtaining my black belt (and nidan rank) has been one of my most prized accomplishments, but not because "I got a black belt". It's that everything I've worked for allowed me to achieve that goal. The problem is that too many people are enamored with the cloth belt that they can show to everybody. But when they can't demonstrate a correct technique, that belt means nothing.

[hammer]

I agree. It's part of the "instant gratification" generation. I'm about to turn 40, and I could care less about my belt color. I always tell people that complain about rank that I'd rather be a white belt that can defeat a black belt than the black belt that can be defeated by a white belt. I train to learn everything I can and to perfect what I learn. I had set a goal in my teens to obtain a black belt, but I didn't set a time frame because I wanted to feel like I earned it thru my hard work. And I did.

I would personally be okay with training without a belt. But I also love the tradition in my art(s). Obtaining my black belt (and nidan rank) has been one of my most prized accomplishments, but not because "I got a black belt". It's that everything I've worked for allowed me to achieve that goal. The problem is that too many people are enamored with the cloth belt that they can show to everybody. But when they can't demonstrate a correct technique, that belt means nothing.

Great post.

[devil dog]

Jaypo,

I could not agree with you more. When I started we had two belts. White and Black. The only way to differentiate was by see their skills. The Yudansha and Kodansha ranks were the same minus Kanji or up to three stripes to notate there teaching license. Now we have the rainbow (White, Yellow, Orange, Blue, Green, Brown, Black) and the Yudansha and Kodansha have four seperate belts they can wear to signify Renshi, Shihan, Kyoshi and Hanshi.

Personally I liked it when it was just White and Black. When I was a teenager we adopted a four belt rank system similar to Matsubayashi Ryu (White, Green, Brown, Black). I was so excited to get a Brown belt to signify my achievements. The problem is it became more about the belt than about the skill and knowledge. Tests were a formality back then and it was more to prove that you had learned and became proficient in the techniques that had been taught, kind of like quizes in school rather than a stepping stone to another belt.

I agree with you whole heartedly that it has become about the belt rather than the individuals skill and knowledge. Granted you must have the knowledge and skills to advance but it's surprising how many Brown belts have to go back to brush up on there basic skills before testing for Shodan. It's like a race to get to the next group of techniques and the old are maybe not forgotten but certainly not as important (because they are some how beneath their new level). We used to go home and practice all of the techniques for hours, even the basics, especially the basics. Kids (in my art fourteen to eighteen) today have to be prodded to keep practicing the basics. It's almost like, "I already learned that so why keep practicing". Which is why those students may take up to 5-7 years to be ready for Shodan. We tell them but it goes in one ear and out the other, and when they get to the intermediate Kyu levels and we start looking for mastery of the basics, they figure out that all of our preaching wasn't just to hear ourselves talk and they realize they are well behind those that did listen to us. It's a different generation and it's hard to understand them. I think it boils down to lazyness. They would rather play video games, play on their phones or watch the TV rather than perfect their Kata or Kihon.

Personally I would love to go back to the old ways. I'd loose a lot of students but the ones who stayed would be the hard core students that put knowledge, skill and self perfection above belts. I think it would be refreshing to know that your whole class is there for the right reasons. But I guess that will be left up to people well above my rank.

I have tried to illustrate my point to them by wearing a white belt during classes, in fact I wore one for almost two months at one point. When asked I tell them that the belt doesn't make me any better or worse and it doesn't make me who I am. My skill and knowledge and years of blood, sweat and tears do. I get the funniest looks and have been asked on more than one occasion "why would you wear that belt!" as if it wear a plague.

I have frequently asked my intermidiate ranks and Yudansha ranks if the belt makes me any less skilled or knowledgeable and if so would they like to test their theory and I would use only basic techniques. I have yet to get any takers but I'm not sure that they truely understand my intent.

I have tried to also explain that the foundation techniques if mastered could trump the advanced techniques if the practitioner where only proficient. I have demonstrated this several times with my Nidans and Sandans which is when they finally start to realize that without a very strong mastery of the foundation (basic) techniques their advanced techniques will never be perfected. The foundation techniques are what all of the advanced techniques are built on. I end by telling them that a white belt that has spent 5 years perfecting the basics could defeat a black belt that has never spent the time to perfect each belt before moving to the next. You should see the cross stares I get but it does sink in to a few and those are the few that would stick around if belts were removed from the picture.

[ninjanurse]

All true. I do believe however that you can reward the students of today with small goals (belt changes every 4-6 months) while still maintaining the quality of your program as long as your expectations are made known and students are consistently held to a standard. Anything between white and black is inconsequential anyway.

[Archimoto]

All true. I do believe however that you can reward the students of today with small goals (belt changes every 4-6 months) while still maintaining the quality of your program as long as your expectations are made known and students are consistently held to a standard. Anything between white and black is inconsequential anyway.

I in fact agree with all of the posts above and also find great wisdom in Ninjanurse's post as well. It is possible to maintain standards while addressing the proclivities of the younger generation. Although it can feel like more work than it should be at times !

[Spartacus Maximus]

If you make the decision to go back to the old system with only black and white or if you want to get rid of belts altogether; it will probably take time for people to accept and get used to the idea.

One sensei I know has interesting ways to get his students to change the way they think about belts and skill. His first idea is to set up a week or a month where everyone including sensei wears a white belt. Another is to have training done in just Gi bottoms and a white t-shirt. After the student get accustomed to that, the start to focus more on their skills and eventually belt colour loses its meaning.

[devil dog]

Well I would love to go back but it's not up to me. My assocation makes those decisions. However I am being appointed to the board of instructors in September and will have a voice on these decisions but I doubt anyone else would want to make such a drastic change.

[sensei8]

Well I would love to go back but it's not up to me. My assocation makes those decisions. However I am being appointed to the board of instructors in September and will have a voice on these decisions but I doubt anyone else would want to make such a drastic change.

Congrats on being appointed to the board of instructors. You're about to enter the lions mouth by being part of the hierarchy. Be very careful, and log everything for your protection, and if the anyone wants conversations, make sure you email everything; time stamps are valuable on the "cover yourself" areas.

[devil dog]

Congrats on being appointed to the board of instructors. You're about to enter the lions mouth by being part of the hierarchy. Be very careful, and log everything for your protection, and if the anyone wants conversations, make sure you email everything; time stamps are valuable on the "cover yourself" areas.

It sounds like I'm going into politics the way you describe it. I don't mind saying I was pretty excited until reading this post. Something I should know about sitting on the board?

From the way it has always been set up in the past 8 instructors are appointed/voted in every two years and the Kaiso (Soshi now that Sensei is retiring) and the Chairman of the board make 10 total. I am told it is very non-political and is structured towards the betterment of the association. I was also told that it takes a full unanimous vote of instructors to replace you before your two year term is up.

I did not think about this as a cover myself type of situation but rather a chance to make a difference and participate in the betterment of the association for all of our schools, instructors and students. Sort of a meeting of the minds type of thing. Mix ideas and go back to the instructors and schools you represent and talk it over with them to get a common consensus and then put it to a vote. What do you know that I don't know? Should I reconcider my acceptance? I definitely do not want to get caught up into dirty politics and arguing with everyone over things that do not benifit the group as a whole, but I've been assured that everyone is in this for the common good of the whole association.

I know from reading your posts you've been in the upper side of management so what can you tell me that I don't know?