Disrespectful student/parent

[ninjanurse]

Unfortunately it happens all the time in dojos everywhere-students who get too big for their britches and seek "recognition" in the form of rank from another source. You can't predict what anothers' ego is going to drive them to do but you can maintain your own ethics and standards and feel good that you al least are holding up your end of the "deal".

[Archimoto]

Unfortunately it happens all the time in dojos everywhere-students who get too big for their britches and seek "recognition" in the form of rank from another source. You can't predict what anothers' ego is going to drive them to do but you can maintain your own ethics and standards and feel good that you al least are holding up your end of the "deal".

I completely agree. This reminds me, one of the methods we use with students over eager to be promoted is sparring - it can be quite humbling.

Thoughts?

[jaypo]

I'm not sure what happened this week, but we tested 14 people over Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. After the tests on Saturday, our M.I. was giving the results to the students, and before he did, he gave a speech about not being pleased when students tell him "I know 5 katas. I want to test for Green Belt". Apparently, some students are equating the number of katas they "know" to the belt that they should be wearing.

I had this happen last year, and for the student that was a little to big for his Levis, I had him start to perform Heian Sandan, and his first stance was wrong. I also had him tell me the applications for the kata, and he struggled there too. So I told him that he knew the movements, but that doesn't mean he "knew the kata". And I think that's what's going on. Some students are learning a lot of the katas, but they aren't learning the meanings of them. So our M.I. wants to postpone testing for a few months and observe everyone's knowledge a little more. And I suspect he'll be testing their knowledge a lot as well!

In our system, we use the standard Shorin-Ryu katas and their Shotokan counterparts. But we also have some association specific katas that we perform as well that tie basics in to our M.I.'s club style. So when a student says he knows 5 katas, he may only know 1 or 2 of the Shorin-Ryu/Shotokan katas and 3 or 4 association specific ones. And it does show in their sparring. That was evident this weekend!

[sensei8]

"I know 5 katas. I want to test for Green Belt". Really? Impressive! Problem with that, imho, is that students make the big mistake of assuming a position that they don't possess. Rank envy!!

[mal103]

....before he did, he gave a speech about not being pleased when students tell him "I know 5 katas. I want to test for Green Belt". Apparently, some students are equating the number of katas they "know" to the belt that they should be wearing.

I had this happen last year, and for the student that was a little to big for his Levis, I had him start to perform Heian Sandan, and his first stance was wrong. I also had him tell me the applications for the kata, and he struggled there too. So I told him that he knew the movements, but that doesn't mean he "knew the kata". And I think that's what's going on. Some students are learning a lot of the katas, but they aren't learning the meanings of them. So our M.I. wants to postpone testing for a few months and observe everyone's knowledge a little more. And I suspect he'll be testing their knowledge a lot as well!......

In my old association it started becoming obvious that money and status were becoming more important than standards as people were getting graded early or with poor standards, the way that I now look at grading is more about me telling the students when they are ready - not the other way around.

Unfortunately there is an attitude that exists in some people that they get an award for turning up, should automatically grade for training for 3 months and are better than others. Some even think they are brilliant so no longer need to train harder as they should easily pass any test.

The best students are the ones who are self critical, never think they are ready and accept that they are on a journey that you have already trodden and will take your advice on when they can grade etc.

So long as you are setting a high enough standard and a good example then you will produce good students, hopefully they will off balance the mcdojo results who think they are doing MA...

[Lupin1]

We don't do official tests for our class-- the kids (and adults) just get moved up when they're ready. There is a "rule", though, that no one will be promoted until they stop asking to be. He actually had a kid ask him one night and told him "I was going to promote you tonight, but since you asked I don't think you're ready. Stop worrying when you'll get your next belt, work hard at what you're learning, and it'll come in time" and he made him wait a few more weeks until he got passed the "want my new belt now!" stage.

[jaypo]

....before he did, he gave a speech about not being pleased when students tell him "I know 5 katas. I want to test for Green Belt". Apparently, some students are equating the number of katas they "know" to the belt that they should be wearing.

I had this happen last year, and for the student that was a little to big for his Levis, I had him start to perform Heian Sandan, and his first stance was wrong. I also had him tell me the applications for the kata, and he struggled there too. So I told him that he knew the movements, but that doesn't mean he "knew the kata". And I think that's what's going on. Some students are learning a lot of the katas, but they aren't learning the meanings of them. So our M.I. wants to postpone testing for a few months and observe everyone's knowledge a little more. And I suspect he'll be testing their knowledge a lot as well!......

In my old association it started becoming obvious that money and status were becoming more important than standards as people were getting graded early or with poor standards, the way that I now look at grading is more about me telling the students when they are ready - not the other way around.

Unfortunately there is an attitude that exists in some people that they get an award for turning up, should automatically grade for training for 3 months and are better than others. Some even think they are brilliant so no longer need to train harder as they should easily pass any test.

 

The best students are the ones who are self critical, never think they are ready and accept that they are on a journey that you have already trodden and will take your advice on when they can grade etc.

So long as you are setting a high enough standard and a good example then you will produce good students, hopefully they will off balance the mcdojo results who think they are doing MA...

 

That's exactly right. Of the 16 or so that tested this weekend, it was the 4 that never asked to be tested that did the best and are moving up in rank without any issues. One of them actually had to be convinced that she was ready to test! Our M.I. spends a lot of time evaluating everybody and telling them when they're ready. But there are a few that believe that they're ready when they're clearly not. I actually witnessed the first test where somebody was asked to leave because he was not focused. His mom paid for him to test, but it was clear that he was uninterested and not focused. So rather than let him complete and fail the test, he was told that he was excused and that he would be worked with on an individual basis until our M.I. thought he was ready. But he wasn't one that pushes to test. He was just given the opportunity and squandered it.

[devil dog]

The best students are the ones who are self critical, never think they are ready and accept that they are on a journey that you have already trodden and will take your advice on when they can grade etc.

So long as you are setting a high enough standard and a good example then you will produce good students, hopefully they will off balance the mcdojo results who think they are doing MA.

I could not have expressed this better. This is exactly how I feel about it.

I do not have a set time frame that students test. We have a minimum time in grade for every rank in the students manual. I tell every new student that you must be superman or wonderwoman to meet this goal and that they will not be tested until I feel that they are ready and have met the requirements of the rank.

I still have the occasional student get upset with me when they do not test within what they think is an appropriate amount of time. And they always use this minimum time as an example.

Personally I wish the organization would remove these bench marks from the students manual.

And I agree whole heartedly that the best students are the ones that feel that they are never ready no matter how much time they have been at a certain rank. They are the ones that meet the minimum later on in grades because of the attention to detail and hard work they put into it during the beginner grades.

Well said and great insight. As I said I could not have said this any better and it hits the nail on the head.

[sensei8]

Our testing cycle is every three months, and just because they are every three months, that doesn't mean that anyone will be invited to attend; parameters aren't always satisfied!!

[jaypo]

After my last post, our M.I. has decided that he won't be conducting any tests for a few months. We've basically tripled in size over the last 6 months, and we're still trying to accommodate our growth. We have such a diverse group of ranks that it has become difficult to keep track of everyone's progress. Our club has 1 M.I., 5 Nidans, 1 Shodan, and 1 Jr. Black Belt. And with the work schedules of all of the assistants, it's difficult to keep up when things happen so quickly. We brought some issues to our M.I.'s attention about rank "envy", and he has decided to postpone testing and focus on evaluating everyone for the next few months. Then, he'll decide who he feels is ready for the next round.

He's been working so hard to teach more people and ease them into the classes that it has become harder to evaluate each individual.