Is Kenpo Karate more Chinese than we think?

[vantheman]

Hello all,

One of the historic concepts of Kenpo Karate I have found very intriguing is the debate between whether Shaolin Kung Fu or Kosho Ryu Kenpo influenced Chow more when he created the style. Most Kenpo Karate (American kenpo, Shaolin Kempo Karate, Kajukenbo) schools tend to trace back to James Mitose when discussing the lineage of their style, saying that the majority of what they study was brought over by Mitose from Japan. The Kung Fu training Chow received from his father is often omitted from the lineage/history. From the limited research I have done, however, this appears to be misleading, as Chow allegedly claimed that his father was his true teacher and saw Mitose as a mere business partner (they taught martial arts together). While there clearly is some Japanese influence on Kenpo Karate, it also looks very similar to Wing Chun, which makes a lot of sense: William Chow adapted Shaolin Kung Fu for self defense, which is essentially the same general story with Wing Chun. Additionally, the traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate Pinans didn't enter the system until Nick Cerio, who is considerably further down the line. Furthermore, the only kata in Mitose's system, Naihanchi, appears to be missing in most Kenpo Karate schools. For these reasons, it would seem that Kenpo Karate styles are just as Chinese, if not more Chinese, than Japanese. Granted, my particular style branches off from Villari, who added some more Chinese based content into the system, but this is a fairly important aspect of Kenpo, and I figured some light should be shone upon it.

[sensei8]

That's a great question, in that, I believe that most MA styles are more Chinese than not!! In that, I believe that the Kenpo Karate is "karate" by its methodologies and ideologies, but then again, can't dispel the Chinese influence.

Again, that's a great question that I'm sure will vary from it's KF members here.

[Harkon72]

I always thought that Kenpo Karate had Korean roots. I may be mistaken. Some arts have minimal Chinese influence. Aikido is one, being derived from the classic Japanese Shinto Jui Jitsu and Aki Jitsu branches. Ninjitsu and Ken Jitsu schools can have this claim too. Okinawan Karate and Shorinji Kempo have direct linage to China, but some Filipino and Indonesian arts do not. Muay Thai is Thai and Sombo is Russian. Some say that all martial arts can be historically traced to the Yogi of India, but I doubt that the native arts of Africa for example were ever influenced by them.

[vantheman]

I always thought that Kenpo Karate had Korean roots.

There is a small amount of Korean influence that comes in with the development of Kajukenbo, which included Tang Soo Do. I believe that either George Pesare or Sonny Gascon also studied some Korean styles when they were stationed in the Korean War, but I cannot remember which one it is.

Granted, many Asian martial arts have at least some Chinese influence somewhere in them. Kenpo, after all, is just a translation of Ch'aun Fa (which is what early Shaolin Kung Fu was referred to in China). That being said, Kenpo is considerably more Japanese than Kung Fu (obviously), although Kenpo Karate appears to have more of a Kung Fu/Wing Chun-esque feel to it. William Chow seems to have developed a more of a Chinese style of fighting, and most pictures of him show him wearing more of a kung fu outfit, not a gi.

[andym]

Chinese roots ? : Difficult to say, what is done now and how it is performed, is very different from how it was done back on Hawaii. The documentary evidence points to Choki Motobu being a major influence.

[vantheman]

Chinese roots ? : Difficult to say, what is done now and how it is performed, is very different from how it was done back on Hawaii. The documentary evidence points to Choki Motobu being a major influence.

That is a very good point. Kenpo Karate (especially those systems under Villari) are probably as American as they are Chinese (that's probably why Boa is one of the Snake sub animals is SKK).

If I am correct, Choki Motobu was one of the Karate practitioners that James Mitose trained with. While that may very well be true, I am questioning how much of Mitose's Kosho Ryu/Kenpo Jiujitsu made its way into William Chow's Kenpo Karate. While many seem to support the story that Chow learned from Mitose and his students (the former bringing Kenpo from Japan to Hawaii), others argue that Chow was more influenced by the Shaolin Kung Fu he learned from his father. I tend to support the latter argument, and feel that Chinese Kempo would be a more accurate term than Kenpo Karate (granted, Chinese Kempo already can refer to a bunch a different styles). But that's just me. That being said, most Kenpo practitioners have cross trained so much that it isn't as pure as either side of the argument would suggest.

[clfsean]

Ed Parker was friends with Ark Y Wong (5 Families 5 Animals) in LA. Parker & Ralph Castro used to go to San Francisco's Chinatown during Chinese New Year & film different schools demo'ing for the celebration. I forgot the name of the guy that he "teamed" with early on that exposed him to/taught/showed a version of Hung Ga's "Tiger Crane Duet" (Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen). James somebody ... Woo maybe? This is all pretty well known stuff.

I've read about Chow's father teaching him before meeting up with Mitose.

But I saw a video once of Chow performing & I saw nothing overtly resembling CMA's in what he did. He looked very Japanese/Okinawan with what he did.

If Parker had a CMA training at some point, it wasn't very deep & the impact on what is considered Kenpo now is minimal if barely existing in technique. There are ideas there (circle, some body mechanics) that lend to CMAs but it's nothing special or conclusive.

Just some thoughts & this isn't any kind of slighting or the like Kenpo. Just thoughts from a CMA practitioner.

[vantheman]

Ed Parker was friends with Ark Y Wong (5 Families 5 Animals) in LA. Parker & Ralph Castro used to go to San Francisco's Chinatown during Chinese New Year & film different schools demo'ing for the celebration. I forgot the name of the guy that he "teamed" with early on that exposed him to/taught/showed a version of Hung Ga's "Tiger Crane Duet" (Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen). James somebody ... Woo maybe? This is all pretty well known stuff.

I've read about Chow's father teaching him before meeting up with Mitose.

But I saw a video once of Chow performing & I saw nothing overtly resembling CMA's in what he did. He looked very Japanese/Okinawan with what he did.

If Parker had a CMA training at some point, it wasn't very deep & the impact on what is considered Kenpo now is minimal if barely existing in technique. There are ideas there (circle, some body mechanics) that lend to CMAs but it's nothing special or conclusive.

Just some thoughts & this isn't any kind of slighting or the like Kenpo. Just thoughts from a CMA practitioner.

Good points!

I think part of the problem may just be a general lack of footage of William Chow practicing his art. I have found only two short videos him, one doing some techniques, and one doing a kata. In short, I think that there is a dearth of information regarding it. I believe it was Hung Gar that Chow supposedly trained in, but there is practically no information on his father, Hoon Chow. As for Ed Parker, I doubt there was any significant Chinese elements that he added in addition to what he learned from Chow. Although he did occasionally use the term "Chinese Kenpo" because he found no kenpo in Japan that resembled his art. Who knows? The only other significant Chinese developments come in with Villari, who is a whole other story (I started a thread on him in the Politics forum in case you want to discuss that )

[lit-arate]

My understanding is that the "Karate" appended to the end of Parker's Kenpo was as much a business strategy as a lineage marker. Unless I'm misremembering my sources, Huk Planas (I think it was Master Planas) has said that the name had several different endings in its early stages (Karate, Kung Fu, Jujitsu) depending on which was more popular. I believe he also said that GM Parker referred to it in conversation as "American Kenpo," and only added the other appellations for promotion.

Compared to hard, hard-styles, Kenpo seems to be awfully full of open-hand circles. Especially the later techniques and forms look far more Chinese than Japanese to me (Long 6 may as well be Hung Gar). I had an easier time transitioning to Aikido's soft-style movements than to Taekwondo's hard-style.

I was also renown in my Kenpo dojo for being too soft and circular in my movements, so take this with a grain of salt.