an odd experience

[Archimoto]

Good question.

Years ago the Supreme Court was asked to weigh in on the definition of pornography. Clarence Thomas thought it smart to not get specific and brilliantly stated "I know it when I see it"

I think the same can apply to character.

Curious to hear what others think.

[DaveB]

Lol, that post was meant to go in my new thread, my apologies!

[kensei]

I've never seen someone have their rank refused for having poor character though.

In Gracie Jiu-Jitsu it's a similar case. We believe your students are a reflection of you. If a student doesn't, in generalities, share your beliefs when it comes to morality, you shouldn't promote them. Here's a video of Relson Gracie discussing it:He discusses it in the first 5 minutes or so.

Gracie BJJ is like any other business, anything to get their names out their and recruit. Well, at least at the home club in Cali. And that is not a poke, I totally believe that attaching your names to big names works to get your name out their.

I started BJJ on the side a few years ago, and to be honest I have struggled with it for a while. I started learning the combatives program (well put together program...but not as good as the Gracie Barra program) but stopped as soon as I saw some of the athletes that the Gracie family started associating with ,specifically Rhonda Rousey. One of THE most disrespectful people I have ever seen on TV. but the Gracies lap up the attention taht she brings and they opened their doors to her. The ironic part is that she is a student/associate of Gene LaBelle who is an associate of Gokor, who in my mind would school the Gracie boys in grappling anyday of the week...but she went with the Gracies and they took her in because of the whole feeding off each others media ability.

Rhonda proved that its not really just about the art with GJJ and frankly I dont want to be associated by association with her at all so I moved on to Gracie Barra...but a few political and "less than nice" things happened their and now I just train on my own, sticking to Karate and keeping my nose in my own "books" as it were.

[jaypo]

Kensei- that's exactly how I feel about Rousey. She's the most talented female fighter that I know of. She comes from one of the most respectful arts. Yet, she's one of the most disrespectful females I've seen. I don't see how someone that has studied Judo for most of her life can have that mindset. That's the difference between Bushido and "fighting". Bushido has a certain honor to it. Fighting to hurt people is what she's driven by. And that's why I can't stand her.

[wildbourgman]

I don't know if I would include any MMA people or even boxers as disrespectful simply based on the public persona they put out. How much is show? How much is based on ticket sales?

Rousey has softened in the last couple of fights it seems. It's kind of like WWF in many ways. You have to be seen as disrespectful or harsh in order to gin up interest. Maybe it says more about the viewing publics need to have our attention constantly captured, lost and re-captured due to a mass ADD/ADHD in todays society.

I'll give performers a pass because it may be part of the performance.

Butt's in seats!

[cardinal95]

Believe it or not, I have heard of scenarios like this before. I am not sure what the requirements are at your dojo, but at our dojo we too have the obvious kata and kumite exercises required for rank. In addition, we have a significant amount of Japanese terminology that must be learned, along with numerous research papers on the history of the style and dojo, dojo etiquette components such as how to tie your obi and gi, who to bow to, how to enter the dojo (etc). Once past purple belt our school also has a particular teaching requirement that must be fulfilled along with CPR and First Aid certifications.

I think it short what I am trying to say is, for any promotion more is required than just flexibility, kata and kumite (as you all already know obviously). Maybe if the other requirements (that cannot be found online) are brought to this guy's attention than he will rethink his request and realize there is way more to the martial arts than kata and kumite. His response may also allow you some insight into his motives and potential loyalty to your school.

With that said, I completely agree with everyone's responses. Its a tough and somewhat unsettling situation (in my humble opinion). Really, if he is that talented, he can fly through the ranks quickly worst-case scenario.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cardinal95

[cardinal95]

Kensei- that's exactly how I feel about Rousey. She's the most talented female fighter that I know of. She comes from one of the most respectful arts. Yet, she's one of the most disrespectful females I've seen. I don't see how someone that has studied Judo for most of her life can have that mindset. That's the difference between Bushido and "fighting". Bushido has a certain honor to it. Fighting to hurt people is what she's driven by. And that's why I can't stand her.

You literally took the words out of my mouth. I say this all the time. I feel so conflicted when it comes to Rousey because she is one of the best fighters I've seen (and only getting better) but her attitude is just horrendous. It blows my mind that she was originally a judoka, such a respectful discipline.

[DaveB]

In the thread I started on tests of character, one member suggested that he would fail one of my tests.

Does not the subjective nature of rating character bother any of its advocates?

Is being judged a"good" person by someone who may not themselves be a good person a meaningful thing?

Or worse, how will you feel if someone's darker side comes out after you've promoted them?

The more I think about it the more I feel that holding character as a requirement for black belt which is not specifically tested for, is very dangerous ground. It sets up an unobtainable standard of responsibility on the school and teacher and open's the door to accusations of hypocrisy and cultishness, just because one man's mentor is another man's monster.

Unless we send every bb candidate for a full psychoanalytic evaluation, interview friends, family colleagues and associates, I think we're making a claim we can't really support.

[cardinal95]

Excellent point DavidB!

[wildbourgman]

In my opinion I would have the guy test at the next available testing if all other things are equal. If he has respect for the art, understands it's more than a sport and there aren't any other tangible reasons for not letting him test, then once he's a signed up member treat him solely according to his ability. I wouldn't hold him to any higher or lower standard than anyone else that's testing.