At what point do you have to say man up?

[skullsplitter]

I think the scolding was out of line. If she had a problem then she should have addressed it with an instructor.

I'm a 42 year old male in a teen/adult class. We spar hard at our school. Yes, we are padded, but we go nearly all out. That being said, our instructors are careful not to match up the 55 year old woman who is there for exercise and the 14 year old killer. I tend to get the younger people because the instructors know I can take a hit and don't really care how hard you come at me. It really comes down to communication and awareness in my opinion.

[AdamKralic]

I think the scolding was out of line. If she had a problem then she should have addressed it with an instructor.

I'm a 42 year old male in a teen/adult class. We spar hard at our school. Yes, we are padded, but we go nearly all out. That being said, our instructors are careful not to match up the 55 year old woman who is there for exercise and the 14 year old killer. I tend to get the younger people because the instructors know I can take a hit and don't really care how hard you come at me. It really comes down to communication and awareness in my opinion.

and there are people with your mindset in that class. They can take my son's shots and the more they take...the harder they push back. Which is what I want for Zach. Eventually it should get to the point where both can go hard. That is the point at which both get the same level of instruction from the fight.

Eventually an adult will sweep aside a kick technique and really connect with a reverse punch to my son's gut. (especially if he spams a kick from far away using the spam to get closer) That is how he will learn to make each kick touch...even set up kicks. Without pain...an adult can talk and talk and talk...but pain is the greatest teacher on earth.

Well I've used this forum to vent yet again...but i thank you all for allowing me to do so.

[bushido_man96]

Why don't you get your son into Wrestling? When he goes out onto the mat, its just him and the kid across from him, and the loser has to be accountable to himself for why he lost. There's no punching or kicking, but it doesn't lack for the comptetive aspect.

[AdamKralic]

I have discussed judo and ju jitsu with Zach to incorporate a ground game into his knowledge. Wrestling does offer more advantages with scholarships...shame that America is so behind Europe in karate scholarships

[Archimoto]

I agree with a lot of what's been said and I do think the scolding is out of line. However I disagree with the notion that if one is not interested in full contact then one should try Tae Bo instead. In my opinion everyone that is training in martial arts is trying to become a better version of themselves physically and mentally. As students and instructors we are there to learn and to help those around us learn too. Sometimes that involves elevating our pain threshold, at others it can involve learning discretion and self control among other things. All of which of course make us better martial artists inside and outside of the ring. I understand that you want your son to train hard core all of the time - and I am a firm believer in parents knowing what is best for their kids (I have 3 myself) - I humbly suggest however that this kind of experience can be a great learning moment for him. In particular in his development as a martial artist and especially as a fighter. Some of the greatest fighters seem to have a tremendous presence of mind - even while going toe to toe. Learning to read who's in front of him can become an invaluable skill. Just my humble opinion.

[Zaine]

I agree with a lot of what's been said and I do think the scolding is out of line. However I disagree with the notion that if one is not interested in full contact then one should try Tae Bo instead. In my opinion everyone that is training in martial arts is trying to become a better version of themselves physically and mentally. As students and instructors we are there to learn and to help those around us learn too. Sometimes that involves elevating our pain threshold, at others it can involve learning discretion and self control among other things. All of which of course make us better martial artists inside and outside of the ring. I understand that you want your son to train hard core all of the time - and I am a firm believer in parents knowing what is best for their kids (I have 3 myself) - I humbly suggest however that this kind of experience can be a great learning moment for him. In particular in his development as a martial artist and especially as a fighter. Some of the greatest fighters seem to have a tremendous presence of mind - even while going toe to toe. Learning to read who's in front of him can become an invaluable skill. Just my humble opinion.

Solid post!

[Shizentai]

I agree with a lot of what's been said and I do think the scolding is out of line. However I disagree with the notion that if one is not interested in full contact then one should try Tae Bo instead. In my opinion everyone that is training in martial arts is trying to become a better version of themselves physically and mentally. As students and instructors we are there to learn and to help those around us learn too. Sometimes that involves elevating our pain threshold, at others it can involve learning discretion and self control among other things. All of which of course make us better martial artists inside and outside of the ring. I understand that you want your son to train hard core all of the time - and I am a firm believer in parents knowing what is best for their kids (I have 3 myself) - I humbly suggest however that this kind of experience can be a great learning moment for him. In particular in his development as a martial artist and especially as a fighter. Some of the greatest fighters seem to have a tremendous presence of mind - even while going toe to toe. Learning to read who's in front of him can become an invaluable skill. Just my humble opinion.

Solid post!

Indeed! Great post!

Since women and contact seem to be at the heart of this discussion, let me give a female's perspective as well. I frankly don't see how it harms your son to just take it easy on this woman. Is it that his confidence was hurt by the tone of her lecture? If she had never asked him to take it easy on her beforehand but was scolding him afterwards, then yes, this seems over-the-top. However, if she did and he didn't listen to her, then I think the lecture may have been warranted.

Perhaps I can understand a little bit if she was directing him to NEVER hit hard, since you don't want him to form a habit of pulling punches. To say "don't spar with this woman anymore" seems a bit extreme though, and it may cause your son to miss out. Perhaps he can learn both hard and gentle techniques. Maybe he can gain from learning both the "in" and "yo," and be kinder to his opponent in the process.

This being said, I myself do not like to tell someone aloud if they are hitting me too hard. This is my PERSONAL preference, and there are three reasons for this:

1. If I'm getting hit at all, it's bad in my mind, because if that person had a knife I'd be in trouble hard or soft. In general, if we have bowed and my opponent sneaks one in on me, then it's my fault. This is true of how I view MYSELF however. It is not how I view other people, who have the right to choose how hard they want to train. By being hard on myself and kind to others, I am working towards improving character. I believe this to be an essential part of martial arts.

2. I myself am built rather like AdamKralic's son. Being rather shrimpy, if I tell someone in my dojo to take it easy on me, they will do it without hesitation (this is important!), but from then on I am like a breakable vase in my partner's mind, and I miss out on effective training when everyone is treating me gently. Instead, I try to fix my technique quickly and keep people's expectations of me as high as I can, because it helps me to motivate myself to improve.

3. As a martial artist, I often find that showing my opponent is more effective than lecturing them about many topics. When someone gives me too much of their energy while punching during training, I like to use it to send them flying away every third block or so. Soon they stop throwing themselves at me and rethink their strategy. Another example: If a fighter stronger than I am starts bashing my shins instead of diverting my energy, then I gladly act as a mirror and do the same back to them (though they don't know what they're signing up for with that because I am VERY bony). Amazingly, a shin-bashing opponent will often start blocking the way they'd like to be blocked themselves when I do this.

Once again, this is my PERSONAL preference, and it is what works best for me. I will fight hard if people go hard with me, but when they don't there's simply no need. If I feel I am dominating an opponent, I use the type of karate that allows me to expend as little energy as is necessary to remain in control. I don't just bash them. This is common courtesy among various martial arts and sports alike. It is also good fighting strategy for conserving one's energy. FURTHERMORE, this way of fighting is something that I learned from ELDERLY people. If I never sparred them, and if I never got scolded by them from time to time, I never would have been able to capitalize on their years of experience in building up my karate.

[Archimoto]

Wow Shizentai, great perspective!

[Luther unleashed]

As I was looking through this thread for the first time I found it ironic we just touched on a part of this, in a sense last night! We talked about the fact that forms/kata/poomse/hyung or whatever you call them are a great part of martial arts because A person can only fight for so long and then their bodies cannot take anymore, or they can not be effective. and can do forms until the day they pass away typically without any major issues, in fact doing forms consistently does a lot for good overall physical health and does not beat you up the way that sparring or fighting does.

I find it very interesting how it seems like almost half of the thread has people in it that think opposite of each other, meaning that some think it was out of line and others do not for the woman to say what she did. I absolutely feel that there is nothing wrong with going light and your partner should respect that! in our school we must clarify with our partner whether we would like to go light or medium, never hard as that would result in a good chance of injury which takes away from what martial arts are meant to be, if somebody only wants self-defense then Mui Thai kickboxing might be the way to go, but martial arts are beautiful in that they are for many health benefits and offer fulfillment outside of simply fighting...

In the end I do not mean this to be rude but to the original poster it sounds to me like you are raising a fighter and not a martial artist, respect for others, including your sparring partner would be one of the first true lessons of martial arts, not to fight. Quite frankly, I'm not necessarily saying there was something wrong with that, but I am saying that it sounds like your son, or even you train in the wrong kind of place, and maybe there is a place more suited for you that places more emphasis on fighting alone. Karate and Kung fu have a much deeper beauty that can be derived, aside from self defense/fighting!

Good luck to you both!

[Archimoto]

As I was looking through this thread for the first time I found it ironic we just touched on a part of this, in a sense last night! We talked about the fact that forms/kata/poomse/hyung or whatever you call them are a great part of martial arts because A person can only fight for so long and then their bodies cannot take anymore, or they can not be effective. and can do forms until the day they pass away typically without any major issues, in fact doing forms consistently does a lot for good overall physical health and does not beat you up the way that sparring or fighting does.

I find it very interesting how it seems like almost half of the thread has people in it that think opposite of each other, meaning that some think it was out of line and others do not for the woman to say what she did. I absolutely feel that there is nothing wrong with going light and your partner should respect that! in our school we must clarify with our partner whether we would like to go light or medium, never hard as that would result in a good chance of injury which takes away from what martial arts are meant to be, if somebody only wants self-defense then Mui Thai kickboxing might be the way to go, but martial arts are beautiful in that they are for many health benefits and offer fulfillment outside of simply fighting...

In the end I do not mean this to be rude but to the original poster it sounds to me like you are raising a fighter and not a martial artist, respect for others, including your sparring partner would be one of the first true lessons of martial arts, not to fight. Quite frankly, I'm not necessarily saying there was something wrong with that, but I am saying that it sounds like your son, or even you train in the wrong kind of place, and maybe there is a place more suited for you that places more emphasis on fighting alone. Karate and Kung fu have a much deeper beauty that can be derived, aside from self defense/fighting!

Good luck to you both!