"Guided Chaos" - Questionable Combatives System

[vantheman]

Hello all,

Whilst looking around the internet today, I came across another "no nonsense, street lethal, police/military based" combatives self-defense system. While I don't often give much of my time into looking into these, as they are often fairly obvious money-making organizations that boast some insanely intelligent/visionary system of self defense, this one caught my attention (in both good and bad ways). The system's name is Guided Chaos (http://attackproof.com/home.html), and I first stumbled across it on YouTube. What made this system stand-out amongst others is that it made some very arguable points against some of the techniques and methodologies of traditional martial arts, internal arts, MMA, and (ironically) combative based martial arts. It also threw in what it claimed to be "Native American Groundfighting," which I have never heard of ever before. Nevertheless, the somewhat credible claims it makes seem to be over shadowed by the typical red flags: extreme costs, profit-maximizing curriculum schedule (something like a mandatory 10 hours of private lessons [$300/hr] needed for achieving a black belt), pyramid scheme instructor hierarchy, monopolizing brand control, over-simplification of how violence works despite claiming how violence is chaotic, questionable grandmaster, ect.

While it's probably not worth too many people's time to even look into the system, it caught my eye and I haven't seen too too many discussions on these types of combative systems. These types of systems (incl. Guided Chaos) have been discussed on other forums, but they tend to be fairly immature, shallow, and anything but constructive (making jokes about the instructor or techniques).

Anyone have any thoughts on Guided Chaos or these combative systems in general?

[bushido_man96]

I watched the brief video they had on their home page. It looks like flailing, but in actuality, I think they have a concept there of moving and covering as opposed to trying to figure what attack is coming and stopping it. Not sure, though.

Also, the "flow drill" always seems to be with one guy going forward and another going backward. And no one tried to clinch.

The "ground fighting" was interesting. Not everyone can break dance like that, and I could see the point behind it, but I don't think I care for it. I think an experienced grappler could probably work their way through that and establish control.

As for the idea behind concepts based training, I think that is probably one of the better points of their training, and I'd like to see some more of it. If I ever decide to look it up on youtube, maybe something will make more sense.

Now, for the Native American Wrestling claims. I've heard of this before, but not much. I've seen a few "claims" of in regards to know it, but I've never seen more than that. I'm not sure how much of it is actually out there. I'm sure there was something at one time, but no one comes out and claims it, and you don't hear about who learned it from whom. That doesn't mean its not there, though. But on the other side of that coin, with all that is out there in the grappling realm, it probably doesn't offer a whole lot of anything new.

At any rate, thanks for sharing this. They have some interesting approaches, and I'd love to hear other thoughts and experiences anyone may have had with it.

[TJ-Jitsu]

Looks like your standard run of the mill RBSD stuff. RBSD is usually pretty bad.

Self defense is fighting. Fighting is self defense. What differentiates is the mentality and the mindset. A punch thrown in the gym is the same as the one thrown in a competition is the same as the one thrown at the guy in the gas station. Its really that simple, but some people have an unnatural desire to make things more complex than they need to be. Stick with your jiu jitsu

[Harkon72]

Oh Wow! "The Holy Grail of Self Defense." C'mon guys, so they really have cracked the nut of being the ultimate self defense system? Tell them to join the Que.

[sensei8]

From the surface, they're not something that I'd ever be interested in any shape, way, and/or form, from what I've seen through their website and the like.

[noomi531]

When I spar I make sure I'm not an easy target. Awareness of space and how you move within it and how you use the relative area of contact is very important. As Mr Myagi says, rightly; "Best Block, not be There." Blocking is an opening to your own combination and sometimes the block can be the decisive technique.

[sensei8]

When I spar I make sure I'm not an easy target. Awareness of space and how you move within it and how you use the relative area of contact is very important. As Mr Myagi says, rightly; "Best Block, not be There." Blocking is an opening to your own combination and sometimes the block can be the decisive technique.

Solid post!!

Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!

[Montana]

It looks like slap fighting we did fooling around in high school..some 45 years ago! lol Plus adding in soem breakdancing for the heck of it.

PASS!

[Judodad_karateson]

I avoid "military based" systems like the plague. Its a marketing term. Hand-to-hand hasn't been the main focus of training for decades now. In todays war, if your soldiers are having to judo throw and karate chop their way out of a mess, its because something has gone terribly, terribly wrong, in a "We're goners, Just lock onto our GPS and drop everything you've got" kind of way.

Police based systems are a little better, but they have a different goal than civilian defense. You aren't trying to capture anyone, you're just trying to get away.

I wouldn't say the price is a red flag, if it does what is claims, you should except to pay a pretty hefty price. But all the other claims are very questionable. There are only so many ways the human body can move, and Traditional martial arts have explored all of them.

[Alan Armstrong]

Chaos MA is conceptually reality based that makes sense to me. I'm sure in the future it will make more sense to the MA world in general. This chaos concept goes back to the days before Katas and Styles, a time when the color of your belt had the same significance as the color of your shoes. (no insult intended). Move martiartally and make training as realist as possible. This doesn't work for the guy that cannot afford to get hurt that needs to go to work the next day. Pay the bills and feed the kids; this MA guy needs stability not chaos. I'm saying keep an open mind but not so open that your brains fall out. Warm and fuzzy dojos and kwons are places to teach that chaos can be predictably controlled with practice. If so practice on a concrete floor without mats and punch bags without the nice filling inside. Get head butted in the face a few times and kicked in the groins from behind then the concepts of chaos starts to make a little more sense.