Starting over in same style

[Spartacus Maximus]

I have been active in shorin ryu karate since around 1996. Except for a period of 2 years where I was on my own and practised alone. Until last year I was following the same association and graded to 3 Dan.

Last year I found a new sensei who teaches the same style but from another association. His sensei and the actual head of the association I belonged to were senior students of Chibana Chosin. Despite being the same style, I have had to start over completely and relearn because I was severely lacking. I am totally overwhelmed by what I was never taught. I felt I did not have anywhere near the standard of my former rank. It was as if all my time training was for nothing...I made the choice to accept starting over but it is still difficult to actually do it while training.

Does anyone have the same experience? How did you deal with it?

[ps1]

What a wonderful experience. Frustrating, for sure. But there's nothing better than realizing you will always have more to learn. You will never be bored and your art can sustain you for the rest of your days!

Bask in this knowledge, don't be burdened by it.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Yes it is very humbling and frustrating to come to grips with the fact I did not know what I thought I did. I am now back with a vengeance and I have begun to do things the correct way. I am still unsure as to what use my previous training is to me now. I followed my new teachers advice and have succeeded in litteraly forgetting parts of it. It took 8 months of training to earn a 3rd kyu (sensei does not seem to care for belts or the ranks. There are only 3 kyu levels and 3 colours before shodan). I am glad I found him and only regret not having a teacher of his caliber from the beginning of my karate training. He teaches exactly what I need to know and is willing to explain and demonstrate anything anytime asked.

[hammer]

I trained in TKD for 14 years and reached the rank of 4th Dan...and when I decided to make a change I started up with a Kyokushin school. Differences in techniques aside I feel the same way about my previous training...I'm seeing challenges in just meeting requirements for 10th Kyu.

It's tough because one usually wants to validate the time investments already made in MA training.

[cheesefrysamurai]

I can say with certainty that this extended detour will bare great fruits. Your existing understanding of the technique will give you a unique perspective.

I understand your frustration better then you know, but there is a real value in finding that gap in your knowledge and having a Sensei who can fill it to your satisfaction. It also demonstrates that your ego is in check and your willingness to learn is unfettered.

Good luck and please share insights as you go on this journey.

[Wastelander]

Having only been practicing for a fraction of the time that you have, I can't really relate. My own "awakening" occurred after two years of training, when I moved and had to start training solely on my own. My new Sensei had me keep wearing my brown belt from my previous style, since my basics were solid enough, and just had me train in his material up to that level so I could test in my new system.

It sounds, to me, like you have found something truly worthwhile! I'm sure that your previous training gave you basics, reaction speed, and timing that will carry over. Other than that, though, it can be helpful to try to forget what is no longer useful. Best of luck, and enjoy your training!

[wagnerk]

...Last year I found a new sensei who teaches the same style but from another association. His sensei and the actual head of the association I belonged to were senior students of Chibana Chosin. Despite being the same style, I have had to start over completely and relearn because I was severely lacking. I am totally overwhelmed by what I was never taught. I felt I did not have anywhere near the standard of my former rank. It was as if all my time training was for nothing...I made the choice to accept starting over but it is still difficult to actually do it while training.

Does anyone have the same experience? How did you deal with it?

This is one of the things that can happen because there is no standardization. When I use to train in Shotokan, the requirements per grade sometime would vary greatly between different organisation. While I haven't heard of someone having to start all over again in the same style, I have heard of some that have either dropped or been promoted quite a few grades.

I would say that while you felt as if you weren't near the standard of your former rank, you did achieve it with one organisation and whether it's because of standards or because of age, medical, etc... It's really the heart of the training that were all in it for

[sensei8]

I've nothing to compare to in my own MA journey. However, what I've read and with some of the advice that you've already received from KF members, I do commend you on your MA journey. It's hard to be honest with others, but imho, it's even tougher to be honest with oneself.

Do as you're doing; things will become more brighter for you and your MA betterment!!

[jaypo]

When I started training in my current club, I held the rank of purple belt in a Shotokan system from a 7th Dan with spotless credentials. My current club is mainly Shorin Ryu, but he also incorporates a lot of Shotokan training. I had reservations about the lack of "basics" in my current club (because we drilled hours and hours of them in my former club), but the techniques and bunkai in my current club were mind blowing. We didn't spend time dissecting katas as much in my previous club, and we didn't do any throws, locks, etc. Now, every move ends in a "polishing" technique- throw, lock, finishing strike, etc. Not only in the Shorin Ryu bunkai, but in the Shotokan katas that I've know for 20 plus years! And the difference is that my former school was run by an instructor that trained in Japan for years in a tournament based school. And that's how he ran his school. We learned awesome basics as they pertained to point karate. My current school is run by an instructor that trained in Okinawa for years in different styles and came back to the states to train under Master Okazaki. He trains us traditional techniques but focuses on the self defense (and self offense!!!) aspects of the forms. That's what I love. Practicality in my training.

I think my former instructor is awesome- he's a black belt HOF'er. But his style was geared towards point karate. I believe that my current system will benefit me more in real world situations.

[Spartacus Maximus]

One thing I realized with my new teacher's help was that what I was doing was a little more sport/competition oriented than I thought. Essentially I was doing mostly kata without any explanations of technique meanings or the body mechanics involved. All the elements required to really know what I was doing.

Also a nearly nonexistent and very foggy idea of some kata applications.

This continued until I reached third degree black belt. That is what made me embarrassed. Accepting I knew next to nothing was easier to do than trying to forget what I learned. I had learn to perform all the shorin ryu kata up to gojushiho. One thing that has helped me is that no kata is completely new to me. The sequences and moves are identical so this familiarity is useful when relearning