Used to be a...

[sensei8]

A BB is always a BB; that can't be denied, and it shouldn't be denied. What remains is the knowledge and the experience, and even if one's not training as often as before, surely, they've not forgotten everything. Dust can still be wiped away, and in doing that, what appears tarnished, is now of value.

When all is done, and I'm no longer active, I'm still a MAist, and a BB; nobody, and I mean nobody, can take that from me. When my children grew up, I didn't stop being their dad!! If others, think that I've of no more MA value because I'm no longer active on the floor, they'll be sadly mistaking, imho.

Where is it written that when once a MAist becomes inactive, one's no longer a BB?? I can't subscribe to that!!

Skill sets remain, even if they're slowed for one reason or another.

If you're in TKD, would you tell your GM that they're no longer a BB because they're no longer active?? When my Dai-Soke had a stroke, he was still a BB!! My Dai-Soke died in 2010, but, he's still a BB!!

In certain careers, credentials have to be kept current in order to continue to practice their given career!! Not in the MA, that I'm aware of.

When I become inactive, please don't cover me up with dirt yet, because I'm still alive!!

Edited May 26, 2014 by sensei8

[DWx]

A BB is always a BB; that can't be denied, and it shouldn't be denied. What remains is the knowledge and the experience, and even if one's not training as often as before, surely, they've not forgotten everything. Dust can still be wiped away, and in doing that, what appears tarnished, is now of value.

When all is done, and I'm no longer active, I'm still a MAist, and a BB; nobody, and I mean nobody, can take that from me. When my children grew up, I didn't stop being their dad!! If others, think that I'm of no more MA value because I'm no longer active on the floor, they'll be sadly mistaking, imho.

Where is it written that when once a MAist becomes inactive, one's no longer a BB?? I can't subscribe to that!! When an elderly man/woman becomes inactive, should that one be cast into a nursing home and be forgotten about?

Skill sets remain, even if they're slowed for one reason or another.

When I become inactive, please don't cover me with dirt because I'm still alive!!

Martial Arts, like a lot of things, requires diligent practice in order to cultivate both the physical ability and to retain the knowledge. I suppose it comes down to whether a blackbelt is something you have or something you are.

IMHO if someone has hung up their belt and has no involvement whatsoever in that particular style, then they are no longer an active blackbelt. OK you still have the actual belt and maybe certificate in your possession, maybe you also still have your gi, but IMO unless you step on that floor and can show that you still have the knowledge and skill level appropriate of a blackbelt in that martial art, you were a blackbelt. As you are fond of saying Bob, "the proof is on the floor".

IMO you have to still be involved and training someway. Sure as we get older or in extenuating circumstances we can lose our physical ability but the mind still needs and can be trained.

If you're in TKD, would you tell your GM that they're no longer a BB because they're no longer active?? When my Dai-Soke had a stroke, he was still a BB!! My Dai-Soke died in 2010, but, he's still a BB!!

In all honesty, if my master or instructor quit TKD altogether and no longer trained, taught or studied, then yes, he would be a former blackbelt. He would agree with me on this.

[sensei8]

What I'm speaking to is that the BB is something that I am; in my heart, my mind, and my soul. In that, when it comes to being a BB, and I'm no longer active, I'm no "used to be" anything!! I'll just be inactive.

In my opinion, from what you're saying, it feels like you've delegated my BB to dust!! Proof is on the floor is MORE than the dojo/dojang floor!!

Is being a BB about ones heart? Or...is being a BB about tangible things?

[bushido_man96]

It just depends on what and how we view things. Troy Aikman retired from football years ago. Won 3 Super Bowls with the Cowboys. But, is he still a football player? No. Should we look at our time in the Martial Arts the same way? I'm sure football was as big a part of his life, and meant just as much to him, as our Martial Arts mean to us. But, can we still call him a football player? I don't really think so.

It just may be that when we retire from the Martial Arts, the same happens to us.

[IcemanSK]

I would say it's like earning a college degree, or (forgive me the comparison) being a Marine. "Once a Marine, always a Marine." Being a BB is a benchmark accomplishment, of which you can always be proud, and is something you've earned. Say I get a degree as an English major at 22 year's old, and then go on to sell insurance & forget what I learned in school. The degree doesn't get taken away from me, despite my rust on the subjects I studied.

It doesn't take long for our couch-sitting, Cheeto-eating selves to lose our abilities, flexibility, power, speed, etc. But we have still earned the belt. No one would suggest it's a good idea to compete (or pick a fight in a biker bar) in the Cheeto-eating state. Yet, the rank remains because it was earned.

My first master no longer teaches MA, but he does teach golf. This change in his vocation doesn't change a thing in how I treat him. He has earned his rightful place as my senior & will always be.

[ps1]

People quit something when they no longer feel value is being added by doing it. It's that simple. With excellent black belt programs in place, that are on display (not just behind closed doors once a week), students will see the value first hand. The biggest problem is that "black belt training" often just means you learn another kata and some new ippon kumite and maybe flip around a weapon or two. For many who have spent years doing the same thing, with different patterns, there's not much value to doing more of the same. The fact is this: Many people earn a black belt and think to themselves, "That wasn't that hard." When they earn it, they feel there's no longer value in it.

I apologize if I'm generalizing. That's not my intent at all. But it's the truth. If you want someone to train, they need to see value in the training. It's really that simple. When they see value in training something different, that's where they will go.

[unknownstyle]

I have my Shodan and continue to refine my technique of Shorin ryu. but what I've found is that it has a certain timidity about it. so i found a style with a more aggressive approach. i will never stop my Shorin training. i just wish to becone more well rounded.

[sensei8]

It just depends on what and how we view things. Troy Aikman retired from football years ago. Won 3 Super Bowls with the Cowboys. But, is he still a football player? No. Should we look at our time in the Martial Arts the same way? I'm sure football was as big a part of his life, and meant just as much to him, as our Martial Arts mean to us. But, can we still call him a football player? I don't really think so.

It just may be that when we retire from the Martial Arts, the same happens to us.

I do like your analysis; might have bearing...maybe! Are you speaking about being a MAist, or are you speaking about being a BB? I can say that I USE to be a MAist once I'm inactive, but I will ALWAYS be a BB when I retire!! The OP is speaking about being a BB!!

Why can't I still be a BB when I'm inactive? Where is it written that I'm not a BB when I'm inactive?

I've looked...and I can't find it anywhere! I've looked at each of the corners...nothing! I've looked at the each hanko stamp...nothing! I've looked at the watermarks...nothing! I've looked at the signatures...nothing! I've looked at the text...nothing! I've looked E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E-R-E...nothing! Maybe someone can help me locate it, because if it's there, I want to know. I'm sure, if it's there, surely it's not hidden, or somehow cleverly placed somewhere. What is it that I've looked for, but can't find?

The Expiration Date!!

Not one of my Dan certificates seem to have one!!

So, if there's no expiration date on any of my Dan certificates, then, by my understanding, no matter if I'm inactive or not; I'm still a black belt!!

But, when that day finally ushers in, and I'm put out to pasture, imho, I'll still be a black belt!!

You know, I'm quite thick headed!!

[bushido_man96]

Good points, Bob.

[wagnerk]

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with that approach. If they want to have multiple BB then let them, usually they know as well as anyone else else that they would benefit from staying at one place but they are in it for the knowledge. They want to have different perspectives and then they can be comfortable continuing the journey in a particular style. Everybody gets something different from their MA training. While some find the most fulfillment in staying in one style, others find it in trying as many as they can and either approach is fantastic in my book. I myself, after obtaining Shodan, moved to a different state and then went to training Kung Fu.

The same thing practically happened to me. Due to a combination of age, medical condition, a "feeling" and a change in interest. I moved from a Traditional but sports orientated art to a modern sports orientated art to a Traditional self-defence orientated art. Maybe I should be using the word approach instead of art in this case...