Fighter taps out so he doesn't hurt opponent...

[Hawkmoon]

Yes.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, mind set!

There is no glory in ending a persons career or god forbid life. There is honor respect, maybe as this thread and the media coverage shows a certain glory to be had in simply doing the right thing!

Like others have posted, its Bushido, its honor its respectful.

There is no reason to put an opponent in hospital, no reason to hurt the other guy...just because!

That's for the street, that's for your defense, the defense of your wife, children and family ....

There is an aspect of 'sport' vs 'warrior' to take on board here!

Win sure go for the win, but to quote a line in from that article:

"Rasner is tough and could have provided the crowd with a long and entertaining beating, but instead Pantango dropped to a knee and tapped out."

That line can be read to mean many things, but there is one thing clearly stated and clearly the desire and drive here, the word beating.

Consider this an alternative to the tap out:

Win yes, ..... spectacle, beating, seriously?

..... mind set!

Edited June 24, 2014 by Hawkmoon

[bushido_man96]

Yeah, I see everyone's point on the "honor" or "warrior" mindset, etc. Although I think a warrior would show respect to an opponent by fighting him with everything he has; if he doesn't, then he doesn't respect his ability as a fellow warrior....but that's a topic for another thread.

My point is this: everyone says the guy that tapped for the good of the outclassed fighter did the right thing. Then didn't the outclassed fighter do the wrong thing?

Everyone seems to think that the good fighter here did the honorable thing. That would lead me to believe that the outclassed fighter did the dishonorable thing. He should have realized he would be defeated, nay, nearly killed, by this guy, and should have tapped out himself.

[Hawkmoon]

...a warrior would show respect to an opponent by fighting him with everything he has; if he doesn't, then he doesn't respect his ability as a fellow warrior....

My point is this: everyone says the guy that tapped for the good of the outclassed fighter did the right thing. Then didn't the outclassed fighter do the wrong thing?

Everyone seems to think that the good fighter here did the honorable thing. That would lead me to believe that the outclassed fighter did the dishonorable thing. He should have realized he would be defeated, nay, nearly killed, by this guy, and should have tapped out himself.

yes, &

yes, &

No!

Its a real conundrum .. sort of a 'who should have blinked first' type of thing.

As a warrior you would show respect and 'honor' to another warrior just as you suggest.

That goes both ways! ... so ...

Yes!

On the flip side however, there is no glory or honor to be had defeating the weak!

Who has stood on the mat or in a ring only to be given a 'by' because the other guy didn't turn up?

Look at the 'tap out' like this

To steal from a king is the same as to steal from a blind child beggar, you are a thief.

However, stealing from one will have some praise your bravery, your guile the other just painted a target on your head !

I'd offer that Pantangco felt it more important to perceived as doing the 'right' thing rather than what was expected, and so not risk causing serious injury etc etc to his unprepared opponent and then he have to suffer the fall out form that.

So did Rasner do the wrong thing?

Absolutely, 100% yes.

He showed a complete disrespect and disregard to the other 'warrior'.

A bit harsh I think....

Should Rasner have tapped out?

(difficult to admit your failings when your are so hyped up to see past the rewards!)

No.

IMHO Rasner should not have been there at all!

Here I'd offer it was not him we should blame, it is not him that we should be looking at and pointing the finger of shame at in anyway!

No, no no, we should be looking at the coach, the manager, the instructor, one, some or all of these failed this guy.

They built him up, pushed him and his ego to new highs over time, they worked with him, they told him he could beat Pantangco they were the only voice of reason rasner had to guide him and they ...

... couldn't? ... wouldn't? ... didn't? ... consider him at all.

[bushido_man96]

There is a lot of mention to Bushido here, "The Way of the Warrior." I think we need to be careful to compare what fighters in a ring do, and what warriors out there really do.

I do agree that this fight should probably not have happened. Too much could have gone wrong. Of course, in MMA, it only takes one punch, too. Perhaps it should have been played out.

As for beating the weak....this guy is a fighter, too. I don't think he's weak. Neither of them are. Weak people are the sheep that get attacked by the wolves on a daily basis. Neither of these guys are sheep.

But, to the facts at hand. I'm not going to say that the fighter did the wrong thing. Its his choice, and I respect that.

[jaypo]

That's the difference between a Martial Artist and a "fighter". He kept his honor while losing rather than losing his honor just to win. I can't stand watching professional "tough guys" that just enjoy beating people up. I'd rather see a warrior that displays honor and respect. I guess that's why I like people like Machida and GSP.

The other fighter kept his honor as well by refusing to quit. But that was just an awesome gesture.

[Zaine]

That's the difference between a Martial Artist and a "fighter". He kept his honor while losing rather than losing his honor just to win.

Great observation!

[bushido_man96]

Ok, let's take the headline out of it. I don't think anyone would think the winner lost honor by dominating an opponent. I seriously doubt much would have been said about it. I watched Mike Tyson absolutely destroy a guy named "Bonecrusher" Smith. They came out, Tyson put him down, end of fight. Totally dominated. No honor lost there in winning.

Had this tap out not happened, and the fight went on, I really don't think anyone would be questioning the guys lack of honor for beating an opponent put in front of him.

[Hawkmoon]

Ok, let's take the headline out of it. ... Mike Tyson absolutely destroy a guy named "Bonecrusher" Smith. They came out, Tyson put him down, end of fight.

Had this tap out not happened, and the fight went on, I really don't think anyone would be questioning the guys lack of honor for beating an opponent put in front of him.

I truly see what you are saying!

Yes I agree, its a different mind set! I feel this had a massive influence on the way the fight was conducted! Nothing wrong in this, its the way its done, I get this I understand this I watch this and expected this! MMA has the other guy follow you to the floor .... 'ground and pound'!

Boxing you 'punch' the other guy he goes down ... and a guy in a shirt counts to 10!

Its a different mind set!

Here I get the clear feeling that 'he' felt it important to be seen to do the 'right' thing, not the 'violent' thing!

Maybe its me projecting how I do things, my feelings on to the fight.

'He' wanted to feel 'right' in himself so took the less aggressive way of dealing with the situation that was presented to him.

Now don't get me wrong I also have a voice in the back of mind saying "isn't his behavior arrogant?"

He was clearly the better fighter, his skill, ability, technical execution, training, fitness, stamina surpassed his opponent, so why not just end it quickly by doing what you came to do and with minimal risk to the other guy!

How is his actions not an insult?

... like I say I truly see what you are saying!

I just feel he really wanted a clear conscience!

Like Rasner 'couldn't admit his failings, he was so hyped he could not see past the goal and glory', Pantangco could not see past ... what? ... an overconfidence, an ego, a bunch of pride that just could not deal with an easy win and how other might poke fun at him!

I'd add a question to this, a third possibility if you will!

Pantangco, for all his obvious skill, for all his obvious ability, had realized he wasn't and couldn't hurt Rasner!

All punches, all his knees, all his kicks and yet Rasner kept coming back..maybe Rasner worked this out and was simply letting Pantangco run himself out before he actually ended the fight!

[DWx]

I'd add a question to this, a third possibility if you will!

Pantangco, for all his obvious skill, for all his obvious ability, had realized he wasn't and couldn't hurt Rasner!

All punches, all his knees, all his kicks and yet Rasner kept coming back..maybe Rasner worked this out and was simply letting Pantangco run himself out before he actually ended the fight!

That is an interesting scenario to say the least.

Is the consensus here that if both fighters were to continue, Pantangco would have hit hard and beat his opponent up? Why could he not have moderated himself and racked up some points or submitted his opponent to win without seriously hurting him?

As I said in my previous comment. This was an amateur fight. Both fighters were there for some experience and a bit of fun. Maybe I'm a cynic but I don't find it honourable for Rasner to have had his fight finished early - Patangco doesn't know that Rasner wasn't going to come out fighting in the second round.

Yeah, I see everyone's point on the "honor" or "warrior" mindset, etc. Although I think a warrior would show respect to an opponent by fighting him with everything he has; if he doesn't, then he doesn't respect his ability as a fellow warrior....but that's a topic for another thread.

I think maybe I'd agree with this.

[Archimoto]

The funny thing about this topic is that I happen to agree with each of the differing opinions!!! Is that wrong?

Which leads me to this: in the moment I think the tap was either as a result of sympathy or of mercy. Regardless I think the decision was made with the best of intentions. I agree that perhaps it would have been more honorable to continue fighting however I can appreciate the decision. I have a lot of respect for this man. I'm not saying that I think that he made the right decision, simply that I appreciate its significance.