Help For Beginners!!

[unknownstyle]

In the event that you don't use tai sabaki you are most likely redirecting the attack with some deflection after the block has been completed. when tai sabaki(body change) is used it is general going to be almost all deflection. block is the wrong word. in my research the Japanese word "uke" means to defend or to recieve deflection and redirection is what we practice as karateka so block would be an incorrect term

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for the response, Credo Te. We also do most of our blocking motions with the blocking hand on the outside. The exceptions are the down block (chambers inside) and the high block (arms don't really cross, blocking hand starts low, arms cross in the process, but blocking arm does go outside).

I don't like evasions. Any time i see those kungfu movies with the guy who doesn't fight back, just evading I think "unrealistic"

If someone is trying to cause you harm, whats the motivation behind passing up the openings your opponent is leaving?

Evasions extend the fight AND give your enemy the chance to throw strike after strike?!?!?!

Just because one evades doesn't mean they can't counterattack. Think of a Boxer ducking a punch, and delivering a body blow as they duck. No block, no deflection; evasion and counter. Like unknownstyle mentions in regards to tai sabaki:

In the event that you don't use tai sabaki you are most likely redirecting the attack with some deflection after the block has been completed. when tai sabaki(body change) is used it is general going to be almost all deflection.

You can do tai sabaki without the deflection at times. If you don't have to deflect the attack, counter strike becomes a good option, almost like an intercepting strike. In TKD, sometimes we will block a round kick and counter with a spin side kick. But, if the practitioner gets good at detecting the move, see the round kick coming, many will just spin and counter with the spin side kick, not blocking the round kick at all, just a countermove. Evade doesn't necessarily mean lack of attack.

[unknownstyle]

One of my absolute favorite thing to do is just be on the end of an attack. sometime even get a little of it. then i am close enough to attack. i tend to let others chase me and don't block as much. i am small and fast so usually I'm already gone before the attack gets close to hitting me.

[Kusotare]

The Japanese do seem to like things in threes.

In traditional Japanese Budo (not just karate), when considering how to receive and deal with an opponent’s attack, there are three main timings options:

Go no Sen – Block first then counter.

Sen-no-Sen – Simultaneous block and counter.

Sen– Strike pre-emptively.

Naturally the above timing methods will be dependent on a variety of factors. One is not more technically advanced than another.

There are three methods or principles to control your opponents attack whilst using the above timing options:

Nagasu – (Lit to float or wash) Moving off the line of you opponents attack and allow the techniques to flow past.

Inasu – To deflect and re-direct a technique.

Noru – To jam a technique. To forcibly redirect / trap a movement, often at the same time (or just before) your opponent (this has the added by-product of unbalancing your opponent (Kazushi)).

Then finally, there are the three types of body movement used in the above.

Ten-I – To move your body off the line.

Ten-Tai – To twist or alter your body shape in such a way as to avoid an attack.

Ten-Gi – Simultaneously convert your defensive body movement into an attacking strike (by using the above body movements).

These principles do not sit independently from each other; they go hand in hand in order to effectively perform defensive manoeuvres, and whilst they may come over as a little convoluted, with a good intructor you will automatically employ these principles.

K.

[CredoTe]

...there are the three types of body movement used in the above.

Ten-I – To move your body off the line.

Ten-Tai – To twist or alter your body shape in such a way as to avoid an attack.

Ten-Gi – Simultaneously convert your defensive body movement into an attacking strike (by using the above body movements).

...

The Tenshin training/concept we study encompasses these three movement types. In essence, our understanding and methodology that I explained above for Uke is a Westernized, procedural approach to training in the all concepts you mention (timing, control, movement). Why do we do it that way? Because we're Westerners, of course!

The Japanese do seem to like things in threes.

It's not surprising that their concepts are bunched in threes; their learning process is that way, too... Shu-Ha-Ri

In the event that you don't use tai sabaki you are most likely redirecting the attack with some deflection after the block has been completed. when tai sabaki(body change) is used it is general going to be almost all deflection.

You can do tai sabaki without the deflection at times. If you don't have to deflect the attack, counter strike becomes a good option, almost like an intercepting strike. In TKD, sometimes we will block a round kick and counter with a spin side kick. But, if the practitioner gets good at detecting the move, see the round kick coming, many will just spin and counter with the spin side kick, not blocking the round kick at all, just a countermove. Evade doesn't necessarily mean lack of attack.

Yes... Tai-Sabaki and the Tenshin I mention are related concepts.

[Kanku65]

Good post

In shotokan karate, many of our blocks, (or now deflections I should say) are in fact blocks before the actual perceived block. (or deflection)

Such factors occur prominently in shuto uki and geidan barrai. We do not cross our arms specifically to gain leverage and create power, no, we cross our arms over our body as a form of defense, in case our attacker is a little faster than we'd expected and we aren't able to get that nice deflection or sweep off. We guard our centre line in both cases and our elbow (not a particularly pleasant part of ones body to punch full force into) directly covers our solar plexus, sitting about 2 inches away from the body. From this position it is also incredibly simple to transform the deflection upwards into rising block if our attacker chooses to change the course of his punch.

These are extreme basics as well, but it's funny how things don't quite click until you're challenged with "is it a block or is it a deflection?"

In the end it is a deflection, but first it was a block.

[sensei8]

GREAT posts, all, thank you!!

Also, thank you all for breaking down your explanations so that those members at KF that are MA beginners can digest them better. It's important because beginners, and we all were there once, often look like a deer caught in the bright headlights of a semi-truck.

Solid posts!!

[CredoTe]

GREAT posts, all, thank you!!

Also, thank you all for breaking down your explanations so that those members at KF that are MA beginners can digest them better. It's important because beginners, and we all were there once, often look like a deer caught in the bright headlights of a semi-truck.

Solid posts!!

Thank you for the great OP... This has been a great discussion, indeed

[sensei8]

Is it easier to transition from the blocking or from the deflection?

How could a beginner "look" at each one to better understand either?

Moving effectively throughout the transition can be difficult, even more so for beginners, in that, they stay static, instead of moving "with" said transitions in mind. That deer in the bright headlights takes over, and when they realize that it's too late, well, it's too late.

Lock and release! Two things that aren't easy at first to do separately when needed to do so.

[Zaine]

Is it easier to transition from the blocking or from the deflection?

I would assign the same amount of difficultly to both. On the one hand I view blocking as rigid and solid and the on the other I feel that deflection is more fluid and loose. Either way, the transition from one to the other is going to feel as if the student is doing the exact opposite of what the other is.

How could a beginner "look" at each one to better understand either?

Blocking is a wall. A good wall lets nothing through. Deflection is a river. A river moves things caught in it where it wants.