TMAers Cashing in on MMA

[Shizentai]

What's good enough for Lyoto Machida is good enough for me.

Can't we all just get along?

I hope the USA team gets to fight Brazil again at the JKA Shoto cup. I look forward to more epic stories.

[ps1]

You know seeing that MMA has been around before the label stuck, in one way or another, and it came into its own, ALL MA are MMA. This is what seems to be the argument, and therefore, we've all the right to teach some hybrid of MMA.

Shindokan's brand of Tuite, imho, is MMA, considering we're an Okinawan brand of some type or another, and Okinawan MA came from somewhere else first.

Borrow, don't borrow, call it what you want, just as long as its effective, and that that effectiveness can be taught.

Imho.

It does matter when the label not only stuck, but when it was created. It was created as a description of a sport; not as a description of other combined arts.

The word "book case" brings to mind some very specific images. While someone can, just as easily, place books in a dresser, this does not change the name or label of a dresser to "bookcase."

This is how language works. Words are assigned to specific things. A truck is not a car. A car is not an SUV. But they are all automobiles. MMA is a specifc sport. Shindokan defines a specific art. It's not TKD, it's not Shotokan, it's not Jiu-Jitsu. It' Shindokan. Yet all of these are facets of martial arts.

I don't play golf. That doesn't give me the right to simply say, "since I don't play golf, I can use that word to mean something else." Doing so is lying, plain and simple. Whether it's lying to yourself or lying to your students or lying to make money, it's still a lie.

Go to ESPN and look at the golf tab...you'll find information on Golf

Go to ESPN and look at the MMA tab... I'm willing to bet you wont' find anything about tuite. You'll find lots of information on cage fighting.

It's honestly baffling to me that this is even debatable for anyone. Popular use is what determines the definition of a word.

Mariam Webster:

mixed martial arts

noun

: a contact sport that allows a wide range of fighting techniques including striking, kicking, and grappling

Wikipedia:

MMA

Mixed martial arts (MMA) is a full-contact combat sport that allows the use of both striking and grappling techniques, both standing and on the ground, from a variety of other combat sports. Various mixed-style contests took place throughout Europe, Japan and the Pacific Rim during the early 1900s.

Oxford Dictionary:

An extreme combat sport in which contestants are permitted to use the fighting techniques of wrestling and boxing but also those of martial arts such as kickboxing, judo, and karate.

Popular use defines meaning. If you're teaching something that is not about sport cage fighting and calling it MMA... It's my opinion that you're misleading the people you're teaching. If you were uninformed about the popular use of the term, that's understandable. But if someone is informed and continues using it; they are being unethical, in my opinion.

I should also point out that I'm not directing being unethical at anyone here. Please don't take that the wrong way.

As an example of what I consider unethical:

There is an instructor in my area who claims to teach MMA. He has a fitness class and teaches "ninjitsu." That is his entire experience level in mixed martial arts. His students go into amateur MMA events and always loose. His actions are not only unethical, they are borderline fraud and likely to get someone hurt.

He is cashing in on the MMA craze.

[sensei8]

I wasn't being literal, I wasn't even being figuratively. I was only offering something to the discussion for us to chew on for discussion sake. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong in what I posted.

I learnt Shindokan. I learnt some TKD. I learnt some Shotokan. I learnt some Judo. I learnt some Aikido. I learnt some of this and some of that over the years; cross training. This is why I said Shindokan is a MMA, and in that, Soke combined Okinawa-te and Shuri-te; mixed them together, so to speak. If my Soke had heard me say that Shindokan is a MMA, he would've disowned me right there on the spot.

In that, that's why I said that MMA was around before the label stuck, imho. Aren't the MA really just a combination of one art or another, for the most part? And if so, then why can't said MA be a MMA, and in that, I'm not saying that said MA IS MMA, I'm saying that said MA CAN be a MMA...Mixed Martial Art.

I teach Shindokan, and I don't teach MMA. I don't have someone teaching MMA in my dojo, and there's no one teaching MMA in the Hombu, and I've never seen any dojo affiliated with our Hombu teaching MMA. I don't even say that I/we teach MMA in any shape, way, and/or form!!

[DWx]

Good post ps1.

Its semantics but I think there is a difference between training a mixed martial art and training in Mixed Martial Arts / MMA.

[sensei8]

Good post ps1.

Its semantics but I think there is a difference between training a mixed martial art and training in Mixed Martial Arts / MMA.

ps1 and Danielle...both solid posts, and I concur!!

[straightblast]

Like most of the world I think of MMA as UFC style of sport combat.

However, the system I do has always been called a multi style system, Knife, stick, sword, empty hand, grappling and so on.

[ShoriKid]

Good post ps1.

Its semantics but I think there is a difference between training a mixed martial art and training in Mixed Martial Arts / MMA.

English lesson time.

"I practice a mixed martial art." Meaning, I practice an art with more than one art in it's make up.

"I practice mixed martial arts." Meaning, I practice a combined set of distinctive martial arts with the goal of competing.

We are a karate school with a very mixed origin. We teach BJJ as part of our core requirements. We wrestled in school and try to keep that involved in our instruction and trained under/with a professional kick boxer. We have done a lot sparring under unified rules system, though we typically stick to a very lose stand up format (no groin, don't strike the knee joints.) and gi ground work now. We don't hang an MMA banner or say that is what we teach. We have been told by a professional level MMA fighter out of a reputable MMA gym we should be hanging said MMA banner or at least advertising that way.

Just up the street from us is an MMA gym. The instructor has a TKD/Hapkido practitioner with a blue belt in BJJ. They do a lot of cardio conditioning, some sparring (not 100% clear on the rule set, but seems strictly stand up) and some no gi grappling. They occasionally teach joint manipulation and Hapkido related techniques. They advertise MMA, have connections to an MMA gym out of state, as their BJJ instructor comes from there.

This is the world, or must my small corner of it, we live in. Different people do different things. We can't generally stop them from doing their thing, just like they can't stop us. Just be honest and up front with what you are doing, don't claim ability, rank, skill, titles you don't have and I'm all cool with you. I ask you be the same with me.

[bushido_man96]

I like your points, ShoriKid, except with "the goal of competing." I don't think MMA has to be strictly sport related, although that seems to be the driving force behind it.

[jaypo]

Shotokan is actually a mixed martial art. Funakoshi Sensei mixed Shorei Ryu and Shorin Ryu together and stripped them down to form Shotokan. But no Shotokan Dojo's advertise as MMA gyms if they're strictly teaching Shotokan. I guess it boils down to perception- those that are not hardcore MAists know the difference. Casual fans equate MMA with "cage fighting".

[ps1]

I like your points, ShoriKid, except with "the goal of competing." I don't think MMA has to be strictly sport related, although that seems to be the driving force behind it.

I agree. The driving force isn't necessarily to get in a cage. That's the way they train, as if they are about to get in the cage. The driving force is actually the most recent shift in the public view of martial arts. The more informed public (due to faster communication, internet ect...) is shifting the desire toward more authenticity!

I don't mean authentic as in "this is real shotokan" or "this is real kung fu!" I mean the training methods are more authentic, the flow of the art is more authentic, the training is geared toward a more authentic end.

When people see someone practicing a form that looks one way, doing one steps that look different than the form, doing self defense that looks different than the one steps and the form, then seeing sparring that doesn't match any of it...it feels very unauthentic. It feels hodgepodged together!

When they see a method of training that matches the self defense and sparring aspects, it feels authentic.

We've all seen and, maybe trained in, places like this. You do one steps (ippon kumite) that have a block and a punch ect..., then go do your "self defense" and it's a bunch of joint locks and throws with maybe a little atemi mixed in. "Why not just practice the self defense and call it your one steps (ippon kumite)? Then, the sparring doesn't look like the one steps either!

It's a little like taking your kid to baseball practice and seeing him learn to throw a football, dribble a basketball, and handle a hockey puck. Then expecting him or her to be good at baseball???!!!

This is what is driving people toward MMA. I'm not saying MMA is better, but there certainly aren't any mixed messages. They train like they fight and fight like they train. This is the same for other arts that have seen a rise in popularity in the last decade or so; BJJ, Kali, Silat, JKD, and Krav Maga, to name a few.