TMAers Cashing in on MMA

[pwen arye]

If you want to add MMA to your program just bring in an outside teacher who knows what he is doing.

[ps1]

To me, MMA means just what the title implies...Mixed Martial Arts.

I agree with this. ... I think that the perception is that MMA means UFC now and while that isn't wrong, it's just one side of the coin.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The term "MMA" never existed before the UFC. The term was coined by the fight industry as an all-encompassing term that included Pride, UFC, Bellator, Affliction ect...

Traditional Martial Artists, to include myself, initially shunned MMA as barbaric and several attempts were made to outlaw the sport. NOT UFC only, but all MMA events (speaking about the US here)!

Enter Dana White! He absolutely turned the whole thing around and completely changed the image of MMA by making the UFC the premiere league and adding the gloves, rules, weight classes, time limits, ect...

Starting in the early 2000s MMA's reputation began to turn around. Today, it's poised to outgrow boxing and become the number one combat sport on earth. And now, suddenly, everyone's school seems to have MMA on the front window!

So, if what you propose is true, why is it that "MMA" wasn't used by ANYONE prior to the UFC in 1993? Why wasn't it used throughout the early 90's? The answer is simple and speaks for itself. People are cashing in on it. Prior to the popularity of the sport, people just renamed what they did: Kajukenbo, Isshin Ryu, Sotokan, Judo ect...

Here's the most fundamental thing a martial arts business owner often hears when they attend martial arts business conferences: "The customer has no idea what they want. If they ask for it, tell em you have it. Just say anything to get them in your door." And that's a horrible way to run a business.

This is why I think that it is important for each aspiring practitioner to do the research into the schools before going in.

With the internet, it's a little easier for a person to do this. However, the best form of research is to talk to the experts. It's a problem if the expert is going to lie to you when you walk in the door. We all know exactly what someone is thinking when they walk in and ask, "Do you do MMA here?" If you are not running a legitimate program and say, "yes." You're lying. It's that simple. Anything else is trying to get out of it on a technicality. A person can justify a lie any way they choose. But it's still a lie.

In fact, I like to add this to my personal list of McDojoish things to do: -Draw someone in with false promises on programing.

-Taking advantage of someone's ignorance.

Now, do some TMA schools advertise themselves as MMA to get people into the door? Sure, but I don't blame them for that because they're running a business and I understand where they are coming from.

Here's an article I highly recommend any business owner, or student for that matter, reads: http://martialartsbusinessdaily.com/4567/the-importance-of-being-honest-with-your-martial-arts-students/

This is written by a highly successful instructor.

I was recently in a lecture by the President and CEO of the most successful FoodBank in the United States. He expanded upon a bible verse and really made a great statement that applies here. "The tree is best known by it's fruit. healthy tree, healthy fruit. Sick tree, sick fruit. The ends are always alive in the means."

There's no excuse for lying to prospects and, in the long run, it will put you out of business.

Don't get me wrong. If I was running a Shotokan Dojo. Saying something like, this is the same martial art trained by UFC's Loyoto Machida, is a perfectly legitimate claim. But to teach a little grappling and some weapons too with your Shotokan and tell people they're training an MMA is outright deceitful.

Like I said before, I teach GRACIE JIU-JITSU. I have trained with Rorion Gracie...who CREATED THE UFC!!! But I don't even say I teach MMA. Despite the fact that I do teach striking and clinch work. I teach Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. If someone comes to me asking for MMA, I send them to the MMA gym down the street.

[jaypo]

I think you hit the nail on the head- "the MMA gym down the street".

I've never heard of the top MMA type schools being listed as "MMA" schools. American Kickboxing Academy. American Top Team. Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Militich Fighting Systems. Blackzillions. Etc.

To the true fan of MMA or TMA, they know the difference. Casual fans are the ones that will get duped.

[sensei8]

To me, MMA means just what the title implies...Mixed Martial Arts.

I agree with this. ... I think that the perception is that MMA means UFC now and while that isn't wrong, it's just one side of the coin.

I wholeheartedly disagree...

ps1,

You disagreeing with Zaine and/or myself?

Traditional Martial Artists, to include myself, initially shunned MMA as barbaric and several attempts were made to outlaw the sport. NOT UFC only, but all MMA events (speaking about the US here)!

As a TMA, I never shunned MMA as barbaric! No! I love the UFC format, past and present. To test ones mettle in that type of venue, well, it's appealing to the senses, well, it appeals to me.

[Zaine]

I wholeheartedly disagree. The term "MMA" never existed before the UFC. The term was coined by the fight industry as an all-encompassing term that included Pride, UFC, Bellator, Affliction ect...

Just because the term didn't exist before UFC doesn't mean that MMA wasn't around and there were systems that incorporated a mixture of MA long before we thought to call it such. So I'll repeat my sentiment: When we use the term MMA we automatically think UFC, which isn't wrong, but it is still only one side of the coin. I still hold that any system that mixes different MA into one system of MA (or fighting) regardless of the intended result is an MMA.

Traditional Martial Artists, to include myself, initially shunned MMA as barbaric and several attempts were made to outlaw the sport. NOT UFC only, but all MMA events (speaking about the US here)!

I share sensei8's view, I never shunned MMA. I can't speak for others but I always found it interesting.

This is why I think that it is important for each aspiring practitioner to do the research into the schools before going in.

"The customer has no idea what they want. If they ask for it, tell em you have it. Just say anything to get them in your door." And that's a horrible way to run a business. . . .With the internet, it's a little easier for a person to do this. However, the best form of research is to talk to the experts. It's a problem if the expert is going to lie to you when you walk in the door. We all know exactly what someone is thinking when they walk in and ask, "Do you do MMA here?" If you are not running a legitimate program and say, "yes." You're lying. It's that simple. Anything else is trying to get out of it on a technicality. A person can justify a lie any way they choose. But it's still a lie. . . .There's no excuse for lying to prospects and, in the long run, it will put you out of business.

You and I don't disagree here. I never claimed that this is something that one should do, I just don't blame them. I can only imagine that owning and operating a dojo (which is not a often not lucrative business) is stressful and that I understand the mindset. Will I flag them if I don't think that they are up to the standard, you bet. That being said, I think ninjanurse takes the best approach here.

My system is a mixture of many styles (karate, tkd, jujitsu-both classical & brazilian, and arnis) but I do not refer to it as "mixed martial arts" because of the connotation of that term in today's "martial arts market".

All in all, I think that MMA doesn't exclusively mean what we see in the UFC. If someone came in with a system that incorporate a mixture of systems (lets say a system of kung fu, a system of karate and a system for WMA) that it is MMA.

[ps1]

I think you hit the nail on the head- "the MMA gym down the street".

I've never heard of the top MMA type schools being listed as "MMA" schools. American Kickboxing Academy. American Top Team. Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Militich Fighting Systems. Blackzillions. Etc.

To the true fan of MMA or TMA, they know the difference. Casual fans are the ones that will get duped.

In my specific post, I chose not to call out specific names. We have two world class gyms in the area. One has two UFC fighters in it and the other is headed by a world class kickboxer and a 2nd degree black belt under Pablo Popovich. My point was, if I don't have what they're looking for, I don't pretend to. I'm happy to point them where they need to go.

The problem is, in terms of market share expansions, it's those casual fans that are walking through the door. Most of the hard core fans already train somewhere. So that's exactly who is being duped.

[ps1]

To me, MMA means just what the title implies...Mixed Martial Arts.

I agree with this. ... I think that the perception is that MMA means UFC now and while that isn't wrong, it's just one side of the coin.

I wholeheartedly disagree...

ps1,

You disagreeing with Zaine and/or myself?

yes

[ps1]

My system is a mixture of many styles (karate, tkd, jujitsu-both classical & brazilian, and arnis) but I do not refer to it as "mixed martial arts" because of the connotation of that term in today's "martial arts market".

All in all, I think that MMA doesn't exclusively mean what we see in the UFC. If someone came in with a system that incorporate a mixture of systems (lets say a system of kung fu, a system of karate and a system for WMA) that it is MMA.

Go to ESPN.com and select their tab for MMA. See where you find the latest wushu and karate results.

MMA is the combat sport that is exhibited in leagues like the UFC and Bellator. That's perception of the public.

What you're proposing is like me creating a sport with the high jump, a 40m sprint and a gymnastic floor routine then calling it a triathlon because it has three events. While still a valuable exercise and requiring skill, it is not a triathlon.

Learning different martial arts and combining them does not make it MMA. It makes it a combined style.

Here's what dictionary.com comes up with when you type in mixed martial arts: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mixed+martial+arts?s=t

[cheesefrysamurai]

I think everyone is pretty right here.

We have to take into consideration that though MMA means mixed martial arts, the term in todays culture implies BJJ or similar grappling art and boxing, and or muay thai or some simlar grappling art. I am currently training Okinawan Goju Ryu and some judo but I dont consider myself a mixed martial artist, more just cross training.

the FACT of the matter is:

If someone asks me what you take, and I say Goju Ryu, they might ask about it or say cool, If i say MMA, I will immediately be associated with trendy UFC style fighting.

[pwen arye]

My system is a mixture of many styles (karate, tkd, jujitsu-both classical & brazilian, and arnis) but I do not refer to it as "mixed martial arts" because of the connotation of that term in today's "martial arts market".

All in all, I think that MMA doesn't exclusively mean what we see in the UFC. If someone came in with a system that incorporate a mixture of systems (lets say a system of kung fu, a system of karate and a system for WMA) that it is MMA.

Learning different martial arts and combining them does not make it MMA. It makes it a combined style.

^ This is what I have been saying. The general population recognizes MMA as a sport. It's sort of like the argument about slang words becoming part of the actual language. If enough people use it enough and agree on it's meaning it becomes an actual word and gets put into the dictionary.