TMAers Cashing in on MMA

[pwen arye]

I don't know if this has been discussed but this has been bothering me for some time. If I sound a little harsh in this post please forgive me, I am a very passionate person when it comes to martial arts, and it sorta ticks me off when I see someone hopping on the bandwagon and misleading some people.

First I want to ask what is mma to you? Is it just a bunch of styles thrown together? Or has MMA become a style in it's own?

Let me tell you the place I go to teaches chinese kempo. Our art lineage is traced back to Walter Godin and Adriano Emperado. Does it have some TMA techniques in it? Yes, for some of the self defense it does. But we also call it MMA (Mixed Martial Arts). Why do we call it that? Well because first it is what it is, MMA. We do have street lethal techniques, but we also teach some stuff that can be used in the cage/grappling competitions. In fact, I am entering into NAGA georgia in july. We have a black belt who has competed in the cage, and our southside affiliate has a couple of world champions.

Well what the point of this post? Well it sorta ticks me off when I see some people claiming to teach MMA when reality it is just a bunch of TMA techniques thrown together. They still have forms, stances, little to no sparring and other dead training that TMAs tend to use. I remember some EPAK black belt saying that American kempo is a mixed martial art, which in my opinion it isn't. So tell me what do you guys think about this? It's kinda funny because when MMA first came around alot of TMA'ers dismissed it, now all of a sudden everybody seems to be doing what they call "MMA". To me thats kidna selling out, and in my opinion thats kinda low...

Edited May 6, 2014 by pwen arye

[Wastelander]

In truth, the vast majority of what we call "traditional martial arts" are, or were at one time, mixed martial arts. Karate, for example, is a blend of Okinawan, Indochinese, Chinese, and Japanese martial arts. Judo is a blend of a couple different traditional Japanese jujutsu styles and Western wrestling.

The trouble is that the term "mixed martial arts" is now associated with a specific type of competition, rather than being a description of what you do in your training. When people talk about MMA, these days, everyone assumes they are talking about this competitive format. Because of that, even though plenty of "traditional martial arts" really are "mixed," they should probably stop using that term to avoid confusion and misrepresentation.

All that said, it is certainly possible to teach "traditional martial arts" that do fit the MMA mold. At my dojo, for example, we teach both striking and grappling arts, and we spar and roll in a manner that can be transferred into MMA competition if you so choose. If you think about it, the vast majority of MMA fighters actually trained in a variety of traditional arts, to begin with, so it makes sense that this is still acceptable.

[ps1]

MMA is a sport. Plain and simple. It's the same as saying football or soccer. No one else used the term until the sport became popular in the public eye. In fact, everyone initially strayed away from the term because the early days of MMA were more like sanctioned human cockfights. The sport was almost outlawed. I didn't see any kenpo gyms using the term at that point. So you're right, people are using the term to help cash in on it's popularity.

As a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belt, running and owning a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu academy, I don't even use the term MMA. I don't train people for the cage, so I don't pretend I do. AND THE GRACIE FAMILY CREATED THE UFC!!

In addition, I hold dan rankings in Aiki-Jujitsu and Karate as well as a 3rd degree black sash in kung fu and another 10 years of kickboxing training. Even if I combined them, which I really wouldn't, I still wouldn't call it MMA.

I have a guy who opened in the same plaza as me, two doors down. He was trying to buy out my student base and have me teach a jiu-jitsu program from me. He calls his place an MMA gym. He does personal training and teaches "ninjitsu." (That could be another discussion all together)

In my opinion, starting a client relationship based on a lie is always bad for business. There's no doubt that when a person walks in your door for "MMA" they have in mind cage fighting. Pretending to teach them MMA and not, can only get them injured in the long run.

[pwen arye]

In truth, the vast majority of what we call "traditional martial arts" are, or were at one time, mixed martial arts. Karate, for example, is a blend of Okinawan, Indochinese, Chinese, and Japanese martial arts. Judo is a blend of a couple different traditional Japanese jujutsu styles and Western wrestling.

The trouble is that the term "mixed martial arts" is now associated with a specific type of competition, rather than being a description of what you do in your training. When people talk about MMA, these days, everyone assumes they are talking about this competitive format. Because of that, even though plenty of "traditional martial arts" really are "mixed," they should probably stop using that term to avoid confusion and misrepresentation.

All that said, it is certainly possible to teach "traditional martial arts" that do fit the MMA mold. At my dojo, for example, we teach both striking and grappling arts, and we spar and roll in a manner that can be transferred into MMA competition if you so choose. If you think about it, the vast majority of MMA fighters actually trained in a variety of traditional arts, to begin with, so it makes sense that this is still acceptable.

I get what you're saying. Everything comes from everything else. But like ps1 said when a person walks in your place looking for MMA nine times out of ten they are looking for cagefighting or to train the way fighters do, and alot of TMAers are taking advantage of that. Let's have a scenerio for a bit.

Say your a martial arts noob looking to start MMA. You grew up watching UFC/PRIDE/Strikeforce etc. You are a fan and obviously want to train they way your MMA heroes do. So you go online looking for a mma gym. You find a website that uses alot of MMA imagery (sp?) and buzzwords ex.(kickboxing classes,grappling etc). You see stock pictures of people doing boxing grappling etc. So You say to yourself "hey this seems cool let me try it out". So you go in for free classes, you come in and see what basically amounts to a regular karate training session, with people wearing mma gloves. Come to find out the grappling is mostly anti-grapple, the kickboxing is cardio taught by a fitness instructor, there is no sparring and they don't train for the cage because our techniques are "too deadly". Come to find out the MMA he teaches is a bunch of styles he has taken and sploshed them together. None of which can be transferred to the cage.

Now tell me don't you think that is false advertising?

Now I'm not saying the TMA can't be used in the Cage. It has been proven time and time again by alot of different MMA fighters, that if the TRAINING is modified it can be used in a competition.

[Wastelander]

I agree that training should be directly related to MMA competition if you are going to call what you do "MMA." For that reason, even though we cover a lot of the same material, our dojo doesn't call what we do "MMA." As I said, even though the literal term "mixed martial arts" may be accurate, that isn't what people think of when they read MMA--now, they think of cage fighting.

[sensei8]

To me, MMA means just what the title implies...Mixed Martial Arts.

[Zaine]

To me, MMA means just what the title implies...Mixed Martial Arts.

I agree with this.

I understand where you are coming from, pwen arye, however but Wastelander is right. Most of the TMA stuff starts out as MMA but in a different sense. I think that the perception is that MMA means UFC now and while that isn't wrong, it's just one side of the coin. This is why I think that it is important for each aspiring practitioner to do the research into the schools before going in.

Now, do some TMA schools advertise themselves as MMA to get people into the door? Sure, but I don't blame them for that because they're running a business and I understand where they are coming from.

[ninjanurse]

Now, do some TMA schools advertise themselves as MMA to get people into the door? Sure, but I don't blame them for that because they're running a business and I understand where they are coming from.

My system is a mixture of many styles (karate, tkd, jujitsu-both classical & brazilian, and arnis) but I do not refer to it as "mixed martial arts" because of the connotation of that term in today's "martial arts market".

[pwen arye]

To me, MMA means just what the title implies...Mixed Martial Arts.

Now, do some TMA schools advertise themselves as MMA to get people into the door? Sure, but I don't blame them for that because they're running a business and I understand where they are coming from.

TMA has survived before MMA and it will survive after it. There are plenty of dojo's/dojang's/gyms etc that don't need to to advertise something that they are not to get students. TKD and Karate is the best example of this.

If a business fails it's not because the MMA gym took their students, it's because they didn't know how to run it in the first place.

[jaypo]

As a huge fan of "cage fighting" (I watched the first UFC and follow it now) and as a traditional martial artist, the term MMA to me means a style that takes principals from different arts and combines them into their training system. Jeet Kun Do is a MMA. Aikido is an MMA. Hell, Shotokan is an MMA. The problem is that casual fans associate MMA with cagefighting. UFC started out as a real Bloodsport. Style vs. style. And when Royce beat everybody using his family's are (which actually evolved from Japanese Ju Jutsu), people realized that even though they may be a master of a certain art, they needed to train in BJJ (or some equivalent grappling art) to beat the BJJ master. Those that had grappling AND striking skills excelled (the Shamrock boyz, for example).

I think any martial art is based on self defense. Therefore, mixing these arts should produce an effective self defense system which should include lethal techniques. I've never seen an "MMA event" in a cage that allows spearhands to the throat, punches to the throat, eye gouges, etc. Therefore, cagefighting to me is not "MMA". It's, for lack of a better term, "MCC"- mixed competition combat.