Mcdojos

[guird]

please do give us a few more details about the red flags you've observed? And what organisations your dojo is involved in. That isn't a sure indicator but it can shed some light on the issue.

[mal103]

It's not always wise to bad mouth organisations online but some of the obvious ones have been given, it would be better to recommend good ones if you give an area.

Some of the bad things mentioned may be a necessary evil to keep the club going, high prices may be due to high rent, monthly payments may be due to the instructors not wanting to handle money every lesson. long term payments may be due to the hall hire needing to be paid up front.

Go visit and ask questions. Although I know a few that look great on the surface and have been a member of a large governing body but they ended up being really bad in standards and ethics. Go and interview them all and try them out.

[RAM18]

I know that GKR and Karate Leadership are both McDojos. Karate Leadership UK teaches a tremendously butchered Wado Ryu style and GKR well, all I'll say is google them.

Avoid both these places as you live in the UK. And whatever you do, don't sign any contract with those guys as it's really a pain to get out of. As my Sensei did with us.

Yes! very true about Karate Leadership!!

We got invited to a tournament they were running to compete in point sparring, kata, high kick and breaking. We walked away with a fair few trophies and didn't get invited back

Back on topic. 99% of Karate schools are a business at the end of the day and there will be charges. its when these charges get excessive or your not sure what your paying for then time to move on.

[kensei]

You will never find a open list of McDojos, more like a list of schools people complain about openly. However two things you need to remember...one, just because your Dojo is a member of a Legit organization...does not mean you are not running a McDojo...and second,...a McDojo is mostly in the eye of the beholder.

here are my top ten red flags showing you may be in a McDojo.

1. Your school only will train you if you sign a lengthy contract.The only thing you should sign in a club is a waiver in case you get hurt...its a martial art for gosh shake and getting hurt is a reality, but ensuring someone elses income should be based on their skill as an instructor, not on the contract you have with them

2. The head instructor refuses to spar with anyone because his skills are "too deadly". Yah...and I have a bridge in London I have for sale...cheap. If you never see them do more than pace and blurt out random instructions leave.

3. Belt advancement tests require payment...and you have never seen anyone fail. Okay, so lots of great instructors wont let their students test unless they know they are ready, and those that just take money and let them test with out being sure they are ready...well they are jerks. but everyone has an off day, and if they still pass after missing moves in teh Kata or some other mix up...well its a sign.

4. They use titles like Soke, Shihan, Master, Grand master, Renshi.... perhaps one of my biggest pet peaves is the use of Shogu by instructors in the west. The Shogu is an honorary thing, they should never refer to themselves like "Hi, my name is John smith- Grand master Renshi soke of my dojo"....

5. There are a suspicious number black belts who have not entered or just begun puberty. personally I think kids should have a much longer road to Shodan and after that they should be held back as much as possible. They are not generally mature enough and with the body changes they go through, its very difficult to judge what they will be like in six months. I hate walking into a situation and some kid who is seventeen and been training six years suddently announces he is a fourth dan in such and such...its hard to keep hot coffee from coming out of my nose if I am drinking at the time.

6. The head instructor has an inordinate number of degrees in their black belt. i.e. 27th degree (This is often achieved by claiming to have different degrees in several arts.)I find that the longer I am in the martial arts the more I want to know how long someone has been training, with whom and then train with them to see what their skills are as instructors...personally I dont give a flying whoop what rank they have. I know Nidans that are better instructors than some Hachidans I have met and could mop the floor with them. And I also know of one Nandan that has never really trained outside of his small sphere in the states who cant teach, has horrible form and basically is a giant waste of time...

7. An excessive number of belts and mid-level belts (stripes). nothign says I need your money and will do anything to rip you off like a striped belt system!

8. The head instructor makes suspicious claims about titles/awards he has won and cannot supply proof or evidence. or they give proof and th esignature of Mabuni looks an awful lot like the one that he just did to sign your "Participation" certificate he handed you for taking his "Special class" which by the way...is 8b!

9. The class is being instructed by someone of questionable age; for instance, a 15 year old teaching adults. If I was...well my age...and I walked into a club, I would have a VERY hard time being taught by a 15 year old! Just my personal biase, but until you are done growing you should not be holding a Dan rank and you sure should not be in charge of teaching people with three to four times your life experineces.

10. Your school offers a "fast track" to your black belt. This usually involves heavy fees and prolonged contracts. Or they offer to give you a "Sensei" level if you agree to teach after a month of training. MAJOR BELLS AND FLAGS ON THIS ONE.

[ninjanurse]

10. Your school offers a "fast track" to your black belt. This usually involves heavy fees and prolonged contracts. Or they offer to give you a "Sensei" level if you agree to teach after a month of training. MAJOR BELLS AND FLAGS ON THIS ONE.

Oh ya-one of the biggest problems and reddest flags their is!!!! Unfortunately this is way too common in dojos today!!!

[sensei8]

10. Your school offers a "fast track" to your black belt. This usually involves heavy fees and prolonged contracts. Or they offer to give you a "Sensei" level if you agree to teach after a month of training. MAJOR BELLS AND FLAGS ON THIS ONE.

Oh ya-one of the biggest problems and reddest flags their is!!!! Unfortunately this is way too common in dojos today!!!

I wholeheartedly agree, as well.

Fast tracking to me is guaranteeing rank; BAD!!

[sensei8]

4. They use titles like Soke, Shihan, Master, Grand master, Renshi.... perhaps one of my biggest pet peaves is the use of Shogu by instructors in the west. The Shogu is an honorary thing, they should never refer to themselves like "Hi, my name is John smith- Grand master Renshi soke of my dojo"....

Are you referring to how said Shogo titles are being misused or the usage of said titles period?

If it's the former and not the latter, I wholeheartedly agree. If it's the latter, then I disagree. Why?

Our Soke was born and raised in Okinawa, as so was our Dai-Soke. Soke wrote our By-Laws and Densho scrolls shortly before they both came to USA, which thereafter, the SKKA was founded.

Soke, as written in the aforementioned documents, used Shogo titles and the like as they became appropriate, still, they were rare. Soke and Dai-Soke taught us all how to properly use said titles both in the written and spoken venue's, and they did that because we represented them. Nothing worse than having a dolt to represent you inappropriately!!

[hammer]

Not sure what anyone thinks of the content of this article...

http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com/

Unfortunately based on my recent training I have been getting concerned that I spent many years in what could be considered a McDojo...guess the one good thing is that I'm working on correcting that.

[mal103]

Not sure what anyone thinks of the content of this article...

http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com/

Unfortunately based on my recent training I have been getting concerned that I spent many years in what could be considered a McDojo...guess the one good thing is that I'm working on correcting that.

I think a lot of people go through this realisation stage, I went out and trained with others when I was brown belt and was fairly happy with my training but since being Shodan I have been gradually more unhappy so have finally split. When it was more about the money than the standards then I realised it was time to move on.

I don't regret it but could have been more advanced by now....

[hammer]

Not sure what anyone thinks of the content of this article...

http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com/

Unfortunately based on my recent training I have been getting concerned that I spent many years in what could be considered a McDojo...guess the one good thing is that I'm working on correcting that.

Quoting my own post because I had a re-read of the article.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with it...seems the author's opinion is that schools that emphasize kata, one step sparring, etc. (anything other than full contact sparring and grappling) are McDojos. Guess I usually basically think of a McDojo as commercialized MA.

Does make one think though.