Do you think you can really use your tae kwon do skills

[taezee]

kyle san..the thread is asking.about taekwondo effectivness "in the street" (it could apply to any martial art) and of course a martial artist should use discretion just as a police officer who carries a side arm should use

 

discretion and makes the decision when to take it out and use it.. main difference is he gets up each day goes to work and knows there a possiblity that he may not come home..his training makes the odds in his favor..he trains for life and death situations as well as being an outstanding citizen..an example to follow..of good morals and character..he has self discipline ( well most cops do except for the ones that make it on the news for doing something other than heroic efforts) just as a martial artist should be. .but very few martial artist train for making sure they make it home at night..we dont expect that someone may try to hurt us..or even kill us....ever heard the term "it is better to have a gun and not need it than to need it and not have it" same could apply to martial arts..after all we "are" the weapon..if properly trained..i wanna know if i need to be able to use my skills that i first have them..not think i do and then find out what ive be practcing has been an illusion..so in order to be truly effective in combat you must train hard as if you are actually being attacked..not just go through the motions..or working on techniques that would never be used in a fight (lets see horseback stance..cat stance..foward stance..are you actually going into these stances when fighting for your life??)..a student must decide what type of training he/she wants..do i want to just practice for fun??..tournaments??..so i can sound cool when i tell my friends "i take karate'? or to train for the real deal..to not be afraid to get hit hard ..tossed around..go home with bruises..but at the same time learning to really fight? ive used this analogy many times before but its so true..you cant learn to swim with out jumping into the water..you will not know how to swim when you most need it by walking on the edge of a beach or pool and think what it may be like..for once you need it that skill the most you will drown.. and this is what all these martial arts chains..mc dojos..whatever.. teach so that they can graduate many black belts in under two years so that money can be made and egos can be fed..unfortunately the majority of martial artist today quite simply CANNOT FIGHT... so i was trying to explain that in my usal sarcastic manner..and i havent been on here for a while becuase quite frankly i get bored seeing the same topics rehased over and over..like this one.. so yes it is true you should try to avoid fighting if you can...but will you be ready if forced to defend yourself?? HOBBITBOB i too was in the military United States Navy from 1984-1990 i was a naval corpsman which as you know is the navys "medic" i also taught combat taekwondo while in..my last two years where at portsmouth naval hospital in virginia where i worked in the command fitness dept ..making sure sailors and marines where up to standards physically and where able to FIGHT..not preform martial arts moves..big difference..in order to be an instructor of martial arts in the military you best believe i had to be qualified to instruct as such..they didnt pick my name out of a hat.. I was not trying to say you should just fight and ask questions later ..not at all.. again what i am trying to get across is.. the way that martial arts are being taught today ..garbage..useless training which gives thousands upon thousands the false sense of security that they can defend themselves.. and when they find out its too late...and to have alot of these same individuals walking around with thier clever little quotes that they picked out of the a

 

ART OF WAR..or TAO OF JEET KUNE DO..or some other book and they are now "true martial artist"..just waiting for someone to stomp the hell out of them and give them a wake up call... you shouldnt be in a state of mind to be able to ask the question that this thread asks.."will my taekwon do skills work in a streetfight" (or any other martial art) you should be in a state of mind to be able to say "i know my skills will work in combat" and the only way to reach that is to train for it..so hard and so long that you wont have to think about anything when you may need it..you will just react.. if your lucky you wont ever have to use what you know..just as a friend of my fathers who was a new york city cop said when he retired.."im glad i never had to use my gun on anyone in twenty years" but it was always there just in case..my father was not so lucky..he had to shoot two people in the line of duty..well hes still here thank god ..better them then him..but he had it there when he needed it and survived and my pops is one of the few men i truly respect..ive gotten more of my character from him then any master could ever instill in me and im grateful for that.because alot of people dont get that from thier fathers..what i got from him is that its good to be humble..compasstionate and understanding..but at the same time to kick ass when circumstances call for it..and in his line of work..it was necessary not only to uphold the law but to get home at night so he could see me grow up.. in my life ive only had a fear of two men..my pops and my insructtor..my insrtuctor who we called "norman bates'behind his back because we thought he was crazy..and knowing how dangerous both were..i only focus on how much love they both showed me and always will..how you could be strong yet humble.. and hope my students would feel the same about me

Edited October 18, 2002 by taezee

[Kyle-san]

taezee, that was the kind of response I was looking for, much more productive than what you had posted at the beginning of this page. What you say about having a gun, but not necessarily using it is the point I've been making about having the skills as well as the discression not to use them. Any martial art (yeah, even a McDojo/Dojang) can give you skills that will help you in a street fight if you know what they are to be used for. This isn't to say any closet philosopher/martial artist that happens to read a few books or train once a week will be competent for all (maybe most) situations, but there will still be skills there that can be put to use.

 

No training is "useless" or "an illusion" if you really and truely have studied the techniques. Most fighters I know in tournament abandon the traditional stances for something more capable, and I know from the way they've moved and hit they could have a chance on the street. Hell, anyone has a chance on the street. Speaking as someone who's come from bad training at two McDojo's I know it's very hard not to let your ego get the best of you, but when push came to shove my training was enough to get the job done after I had looked for a way out.

[taezee]

okay kyle but there are plenty of things martial artist practice on a daily that wont do a thing in combat..we could start a whole thread on that.. i know plenty of black belts ..champions of tournaments.. even olympians who wont last in a real fight.at the same time i know yellow..green..blue belts who can..it really depends on how one trains..to be a practiioner of martial arts does not make one capable of self defense..to train as if ones life depended on it does..when i taught in the military it was not to be able to have some moves..to look good while throwing a 360 wheel kick or while breaking a couple of slabs of concrete..it was to survive hand to hand combat..training was just things that worked..to keep a soldier alive..no forms..no belt testing..no uniforms with a colored belt that was supposed to represent the level of skill...many people feel good going through the motions..wrapping thier fingers around thier belts as if to say "hey look at my belt color im good."..putting on the front that they are fighters..even brag about how dangerous they are and hoping they wont have to prove it..while on the other hand a real martial artist knows he can inflict harm and may genuinely feel.."i hope i dont have to use this" and remains quiet.

[Bon]

many people feel good going through the motions..wrapping thier fingers around thier belts as if to say "hey look at my belt color im good."..putting on the front that they are fighters..even brag about how dangerous they are and hoping they wont have to prove it..while on the other hand a real martial artist knows he can inflict harm and may genuinely feel.."i hope i dont have to use this" and remains quiet.

 

Well said, taezee.

 

In a fight, I'm not going to wait for someone else to hit me first, if I think someone is going to attack me, I will attack. I'd much rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[taezee]

ditto bon!!

[Kyle-san]

There, I agree with everything in that reply taezee. There are certainly many moves that are unrealistic for any use other than demonstrations, more "flash in the pan" than anything else. The braggars and sunday-artists are, unfortunately, the most common sight in martial arts clubs, but I tend to look past them for the serious ones.

 

Anyway, this statement:

while on the other hand a real martial artist knows he can inflict harm and may genuinely feel.."i hope i dont have to use this" and remains quiet.

is a nice summary of what I've been saying. There is always a difference between direcly attacking without giving warnings or looking for an alternate route and being cautious.

 

I've seen more reckless artists end up hurt than cautious ones.

[30-70 Classic]

i do not at all advocate striking first and asking questions later. i advocate asking questions first and striking if the answer is not satisfactory. u can usally tell what directipon an encounter is headed before someone starts swinging

[Hpkid0ist]

Ok. Everyone knocks on TKD quite a bit. I believe the reason is that most schools put so much emphasis on the sport aspect that training for real life self defense is hurt. What you have here is not just nothing more than a martial sport, but something the public and all non TKD practitioners alike see as nothing more than a non effenctive, out of date, useless waste of time, comparable to baseball nowadays. I am a Hapkido practicioner. We do most of the same things TKD does. I have also studied TKD myself, along with several other systems. Its not the techniques of TKD, for the most part. The problem is, is the training. When sport is put above self defense, high kicks are the primary focus of a primary attack or defense, and other tyspes of striking are neglected. This is when you are nothing more than an athlete. There was one other person that recieved ChoDan at the same time I did. He studied TKD for 20 years. He was increadably fast, accurate and powerfull with his feet. He could also use his hands. He knew when and how to use what kicks. The person one the street who started a fight with him would be in a world of sh!t. He was Asian and trained old school. The diference is all in the training. If you are trained for reality and practical street self-defense then reguardless of what system you studie you will be able to defend yourself and others when needed. Defending yourself from another MAist isnt the deciding factor of a good MAist. Lets face it guys and gals. How many times are you going to get into a fight with a true MAist let alone a good one. Hardly ever. Being a military bratt I have travled around the world. After Highschool I spent 10 years in the military, and 22 years studying the MA. I've come to realise that this is for the most part, how it is. Yes there are exceptions to everything. But even those are few and far between.

 

So to answer the question originally asked. If your training is proper then I think that it will work for you in the street.

[Hpkid0ist]

to be a practiioner of martial arts does not make one capable of self defense..to train as if ones life depended on it does..when i taught in the military it was not to be able to have some moves..to look good while throwing a 360 wheel kick or while breaking a couple of slabs of concrete..it was to survive hand to hand combat..training was just things that worked..to keep a soldier alive..no forms..no belt testing..no uniforms with a colored belt that was supposed to represent the level of skill...many people feel good going through the motions..wrapping thier fingers around thier belts as if to say "hey look at my belt color im good."..putting on the front that they are fighters..even brag about how dangerous they are and hoping they wont have to prove it..while on the other hand a real martial artist knows he can inflict harm and may genuinely feel.."i hope i dont have to use this" and remains quiet.

 

I taught unarmed combat techniques while I was in the military as well. I can testify to everything being said. The one thing we did do was a few quick and desisive ground techniques just in case. Nothing that kept you on the ground for any amount of time but took care of buisness. I think you know what I mean. As for the last part of your post, This is something I try and instill in all of my students. Fact-O-the-matter is its the truth.

[amp]

In all honesty, Taekwondo turned me away from Korean styles for a long time. It's hard to take Korean styles seriously when you see people bouncing around like morons high kicking and screaming, then watch those same people get tossed around like rag dolls by a 56 year-old Aikido master effortlessly.

 

It's cool, though, because they still have their trophies and belt collection when they go home.