Tree That Bears No Fruit!

[sensei8]

Knowledge without effective application bears no fruit. Albeit, all of the knowledge in the world is meaningless, imho, if one can't apply said technique(s) effectively!!

How does a MAist ensure that their MA tree bears fruit?

Your thoughts, please!!

[Ellacooper]

Yes knowledge without application has no importance. Same as if you have knowledge but you are not able to represent it what is the benefit of that type of knowledge. So I agree completely with you.

[CredoTe]

Hmmm... Great question...

IMHO, ensuring one's MA tree bears fruit is accomplished by understanding the concepts and applications transmitted by one's chosen MA, and being able to perform them under pressure. Essentially, a question a student can ask his/herself is, "does this make sense to me, or am I doing it simply because Sensei told me to?" Basically, do the techniques make fighting sense to you? If not, is your instructor able to explain and demonstrate the techniques so that they eventually do make sense? If not, do the techniques even make fighting sense to your instructor? If not, then you're doing them simply because your instructor told you to (whether you know it or not); because "that's how your instructor does it", and/or "that's how your instructor's instructor did it".

If the MA training doesn't make fighting sense conceptually or applicatively, then it won't bear fruit. IMHO.

[bushido_man96]

Hmmm... Great question...

IMHO, ensuring one's MA tree bears fruit is accomplished by understanding the concepts and applications transmitted by one's chosen MA, and being able to perform them under pressure. Essentially, a question a student can ask his/herself is, "does this make sense to me, or am I doing it simply because Sensei told me to?" Basically, do the techniques make fighting sense to you? If not, is your instructor able to explain and demonstrate the techniques so that they eventually do make sense? If not, do the techniques even make fighting sense to your instructor? If not, then you're doing them simply because your instructor told you to (whether you know it or not); because "that's how your instructor does it", and/or "that's how your instructor's instructor did it".

If the MA training doesn't make fighting sense conceptually or applicatively, then it won't bear fruit. IMHO.

I agree. Its important that once techniques are learned, that they be applied under varying levels of pressure. Sparring is a good way to do that, but one has to keep in mind the limitations of sparring (and all sparring has limitations). Another good way to do it is to do some adrenal-stress type training, putting pressure to pull the techniques off in a combative setting. This kind of training will help just about any kind of style out there.

[Titanium]

Anyone can throw a punch or kick, but without the Budo and technique, the move is pointless.

If I punch without knowledge or etiquette it is ineffective. If I punch with detailed knowledge of the art of punching, this is a formidable thing.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Knowledge must be applied to have meaning and shared to have value. If one knows something it serves no purpose until that person makes use of it. It becomes valuable when that person shares it, and the more it is shared the more desirable it becomes. Knowledge must also be applied, tried and experimented with so that it can grow and lead to improvements and more knowledge.

Imagine if the first human to learn how to make fire just kept it to himself and never taught anyone. Without application there can be no progress and without sharing there can be no improvement.

There are many ways to apply knowledge, one is experimenting and trying it and the obvious next step is passing on to another person. If one does neither one will never know the limits, flaws and potential of said knowledge.

First learn, then understand, next try it and finally, teach someone.

[JR 137]

Knowledge is like what an inmate on the show Lockup said about carrying his blade - "I'd rather get caught with it than get caught without it."

Some things you learn are like seeds that are planted. You may forget about them, then out of seemingly no where, they sprout years or even decades later. MA aside, in college I learned far too many things I thought I'd never use in the real world; things outside my major and in my major. Over the 15+ years since I've graduated, I've started to see a lot of the "stupid things I'd never use" become relevant in one way or another.

With group practice of MA, the curriculum changed. Everyone gets taught the same syllabus. Just because I may never use nor truly understand, say step 5 of Saiha kata (throwing out something at random here) doesn't mean no one else in the dojo will. Doesn't mean that 30 years after I learned it I won't actually seemingly inadvertently use it in a real life SD situation.

To get all philosophical on you...

Sometimes, the fruit a tree bears gets hidden by other trees (follow that hook kick up with a back kick when the opponent got out of the way of the hook kick and charged at you right into the back kick burried into their stomach)

Some fruits don't seem like fruits at all - coconuts and pineapples (Turning and putting your fists on your hips in Pinan 3)

Some fruits take a ton of work to eat/prepare - coconuts (a nukite takes a ton of hand conditioning before you can use it in SD; jumping and/or spinning kicks)

Other fruits are ready to eat right off the tree - apples (groin kick, basic punches)

I've changed the way I look at kata lately. I used to think bunkai - what I could specifically be doing with a movement or string of movements. The deeper I got into it, the more complex it became. The more complex it became, the more unrealistic it became; not intentionally, I think I just got sucked into over thinking it.

Now I view kata as several different things, and not anything specific. It could be how to transition from one attack to another, offensively for me and defensively. It could be showing me anatomical weak points, and different ways of striking them. It could be showing me follow-ups/combinations of attacks and/or defense.

This also applies to kihon and any pre-made scenario, pattern, or combination training.

The fruit I'm reaping now is far more abstract than concrete. I'll quite sure I'll come full circle countless times over the course of my study. If I don't, I think it will get pretty monotonous.

As far as seemingly useless techniques goes, "A wise man never limits his options." Just like in every other aspect in life, when I start thinking I've seen it all, someone or something comes along and changes my outlook.