Bassai Dai (Shotokan version) question.

[wildbourgman]

I was watching a youtube clip of a JKA karateka performing Bassai Dai which I'm going to have to perform for my Shodan test eventually. I'm just getting back into Shotokan after many years so there are a few minor changes that I've learned about from my Sensei. While watching the clip I noticed that on roughly the 5 move of the kata there was a gedan barai right before the Chudan uchi uke. I've never seen that before.

Is that new or just a variation by the practioner?

I couldn't get the link to work but if you search the title below it should pop up. The move is about the 15 second mark of the video.

Bassai Dai JKA Shotokan Karate @KarateZine

[sensei8]

The link you refer to appears to be fine, as far as the order is concerned; nothing "new", imho!!

Having said that, different factions of the JKA that have split away from the JKA have made subtle and large changes according to their desires. Imho, that's normal and that's evolution of said kata.

Remember, kata belongs to the individual, and not to the masses, imho!!

[Shizentai]

Hi WBM,

Yes, what you see in that video you referenced is fairly standard, at least in JKA. I wouldn't call what he's doing a downward block though. It is more of a scooping block. You can catch someone's kick and throw them using that technique. That's why we bring the right hand back up after it goes down into the block/scoop.

See this video, showing what I'm talking about from Kanazawa sensei's group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lknA_D1Tt8s

Though like Sensei8 said, there can be many interpretations for a single kata technique.

So you're from Louisiana and are talking about JKA shotokan. Are you JKAAF (Mikami sensei's group) by any chance?

[wagnerk]

That's one of the issues with watching/using youtube to augment your own training. There are different variations/interpretations out there.

If you're going to be using vids to help you out, I would suggest either seeing if your association has vids that you can get/purchase or ask to record your sensei/higher grades doing the kata - at least that's what I done (then shared it with the others going for black belt - of course with the permission to do so).

[GaryMo]

As suggested above, and taught by my Sensei (KUGB Shotokan), it's to catch a kick and throw them off balance. It's still there in our syllabus.

[wildbourgman]

Guy's look at the video again. I'm not talking about the scooping block. It's before that about five moves into the kata. It's so fast you almost can't see it happen. It's around the 15 to 16 second mark of the video. I've never seen it anywhere else. It's amazingly fast.

Yes, I was in associated with Takayuki Mikami's group, Mr Mikami tested me all the way to 1st Kyu when I stopped training at a dojo in the late 1980's. I've been away from training for many years. I had moved away from any Shotokan dojos when I decided to start training again, so I found the closest style and most traditional dojo I could in my area and that ended up being Shorin Ryu with a really good Sensei.

Well one weekend I decided to see if I could re-learn my Shotokan kata's so I used Kanazawa's old video's on you tube. Then I hatched a plan to try to start working toward my Shodan in Shotokan and I found an old Dojo-mate of mine that now has his own dojo. I now work with him as much as time allows as well as Shorin Ryu.

I was a little freaked out because I pretty much have Bassai Dai down and then I saw that variation on you tube. I just want to make sure that's not something new that I will have to learn.

[GaryMo]

I think you're looking at his right arm that comes from across his body to complete an uchi-uke just before the sweeping block.

[wildbourgman]

Gary, it's so fast. His right arm goes to a down block and right up into uchi uke. It's a distinct separate movement. I wish I had the capability to take a snap shot.

I see what your saying but he's not just crossing or even crossing a little lower than most people he's emphasizing the down block for a fraction of a fraction of a second.

I'm not really concerned about it anymore I do think it's a neat addition on his part. I am curious if that being done anywhere else in the JKA.

[sensei8]

Most, if not all, Okinawa karate styles do not block, however, they deflect said attack. In that, if you're to watch said scooping "block" unfold from its beginning to its conclusion, one can see that said arm movement is indeed scooping, thus deflecting said attack. To block means, to me, to stop, arrest, end said technique; as if one was to hit a wall, no more forward motion. To deflect means, to me, to change the intended path, to redirect, to guide, to manipulate said technique; as if one is leading the unwilling path where I want it to travel; away from me.

[wildbourgman]

I don't think anyone knows what I'm seeing. Let me try to clear it up.

What I'm seeing is that between what's normally the fourth move (chudan soto uke) and the fifth move which is a chudan uchi uke (mid level block from the inside outward) the karateka is adding a gedan barai. The fifth move is one move before the scooping block. Every other youtube clip and everyone I've ever seen do this kata (in Shotokan) does not perform it this way.

I don't have a problem with it it's just new to me. Am I the only one seeing this?