karatekid1975 Posted October 2, 2002 Posted October 2, 2002 I agree with ramymensa. I believe MA builds character. Which it has with me. I didn't have self esteem, confidence, and I was very timid. I'm not now And I have more self esteem and confidence. In Ma, you learn how to fight, but you also learn how to "control" yourself, to use it only when needed. And most people learn to respect others (well .... most people LOL). As far as being a different breed, being a girl, I have to agree with that. Most girls are timid, don't fight back, can't take a hit (at first). I didn't either. I learned to punch like "a man" hehehehe. I have very strong legs for a woman, so now I use it to my advantage I still hate sparring, but I can take a hit and fight back, now. That's a big difference from when I started ..... I used to "run" basically ... back up a lot! Laurie F
KickChick Posted October 2, 2002 Posted October 2, 2002 Both ramymensa and karatekid1975 brought up some good points regarding the female martial artists own type of personality trait with regards to their training in martial arts. Like I posted in General Martial Arts (Post in on the Bullentin Board) of the pic of the female ma breaking wood with the caption of the husband saying "Oh can't you pick up a hobby like knitting like other women do?" Well, no --- I am not like other women .... and most "other" women cannot understand why I (and other women like myself) do martial arts...... to subject ourselves to the physical rigors, bruises, unladylike behaviour , taking time away from husband & children, ruining your manicure/pedicure, and even "prancing" around barefoot where other people also prance barefoot.... (I tell ya..... I've heard it all!!! , and these are the same women who are outta shape, yell at their husbands and kids and are deep down inside not very happy with themselves). Its with the support of my husband and kids that I am a martial artist. I "am" what I "am" (oh no popeye ) becuase of martial arts .... I would be one of those women I'm afraid if it were not for the saving graces of Tae Kwon do. Everyone around me benefits .... I guess even here on the forum for that matter too and I from all of you! If for anything , yes, martial artists are a "different" breed and I do believe each discipline of the martial arts produces different personality traits. I have seen some aggressive sport karate/TKD practitioners as well as grapplers and some rather far too subdued Tai chi and other "soft" martial artists. "A warrior has qualities that the average person does not. Two of these qualities are loyalty and dedication to something greater than himself - his chosen art.A warrior is only a warrior because he believes in a cause greater than himself. A warrior whose cause is himself and his own ego glorification is no warrior at all. He is someone who just plays at being a warrior You will have to overcome your negative personality traits. You will have to discipline your mind. You have to allow yourself to be transformed into a warrior despite yourself." --Pai, Gong Li
ZR440 Posted October 2, 2002 Posted October 2, 2002 Nope. No different. A black belt martial artist isn't any different than Tiger Woods, the Detroit Red Wings, or a Special Forces soldier. Each has strived for perfection and demonstrated dedication, commitment, perseverance towards their goals. They have trained as hard as anyone else. If you think otherwise, try shooting par golf, firing a slap shot while skating, or running up a mountain with an 80 lb backpack on. Willingness to help others? The dojo isn't much different than a bowling league. Both share a common intrest within their group and offer help to those who ask for it. It's happy hour somewhere in the world.
karatekid1975 Posted October 3, 2002 Posted October 3, 2002 Amen Kickchick! *bows gracefully* I couldn't have said it better myself. And yes, we do benefit from you being here. Specially me with all the advice you gave me. Oh and thanks again for that Laurie F
KU Posted October 3, 2002 Posted October 3, 2002 Willingness to help others? The dojo isn't much different than a bowling league. Both share a common intrest within their group and offer help to those who ask for it.How true a dojo isn’t any different to any other group of people striving for a common goal. And as for being crazy well we are no crazier than a base jumper or a sky diver. We are different, well of course we are unlike everyone else in the world we all love our martial arts, this doesn’t make us better or worse just different in our interests and dedications. We see MA’s to be a way of life but that can be said about a lot of things (try telling an Olympic swimmer that swimming isn’t a way of life for them). After reading over all of the above posts I feel very happy , hearing that so many dojos have such a sense of mateship and a willingness to help each other learn, I have seen many a dojo where ego gets involved and so many so called secrets get withheld. Fantastic good to see the standard is staying high. - Only by contrast can we see.- Each for his own.
Xtreme Fury Posted October 4, 2002 Posted October 4, 2002 Yeah I think martial arts can give you confidence, maybe, but it's not much different then being good in a sport like soccer or basketball. We just have a higher chance of getting hurt. The real advantage is we learn how to kick @$$... Hehehe. Or at least some of us.
KickChick Posted October 7, 2002 Posted October 7, 2002 I think we are all viewing "different" .... differently. When I say martial artists are a different breed of people it is that I personally feel certain folks do not have what "it" takes to do what we do... it's that "it" that sets us apart from the general populus.I've seen it with people starting martial arts and then dropping out for whatever reason. They just didn't have what "it" takes or had their own vision as to what the martial arts would do for them. Now whether or not it makes us better people ... I would have to disagree. This is an excellant article that I would like to share with you all that deals with this topic. MARTIAL ARTS ARE NOT ENNOBLING Copyright H. Kurland 2000 September 2000 American Ju-Jitsu Association Newsletter pp 5-6 Got your attention? I know this is controversial. Some of you may have a knee jerk reaction, of, "Of course martial art training makes one a better person." But does it? There are claims that martial art training makes one a better, noble, spiritual, or ethical person. I would like to see the evidence for claims that are made. If you know of any research that demonstrates that idea I would like to see it, please send it to me. My premise is that the arts themselves are not ennobling. How they are taught is another story. A doctor, professor, painter, martial artist, poet, love storywriter, actor, accountant, dentist, etc., can be a virtuous, good and honest person or they can be an evil, unethical, or just a bad person, or like most of us walking the line in between trying to live a good life. Practicing an art, studying anything really, is an amoral activity. T'ai chi is an exercise. It may make you feel better, be less stressed and think more clearly, but it does not substitute for moral or ethical training or conscience. I know several very high-level t'ai chi ch'uan, karate, and kung-fu masters who I do not want to associate with, because they have an evil side to them, i.e. "bad vibes". I prefer not to be around their "Energy". If they, the epitome of the art, are not virtuous then how can the art make one virtuous? Football was once said to develop character, but how many pro ball players are in jail right now? Is the idea that "the sport makes you a better person", just an old saying that has no basis in fact? If it does not hold true for Western sports, then why should it be true for Asian martial arts where the idea is to learn to fight and in the old days, kill? Recently a woman who trained as a boxer stated that she wished that she never went down that path. That the reflexes she developed increased her use of force in situations in which force should not have been used. It made her a more violent person and unleashed a dark side of her in inappropriate situations. I once read an article that extolled Miyamoto Musashi as a spiritual man. The author told of people praying at his Musashi's shrine. Musashi was the ultimate tactician and swordsman of his culture. But the reality was that he was a sword fighter, a gunslinger of his time. He killed people for the reasons of ego or revenge. Is that noble, ethical or spiritual? Not from my viewpoint. I believe, until proven otherwise, that there is no relationship between doing an art form, being excellent artist, scholar or athlete and character. I believe there is no relationship between being a martial artist and being a virtuous person. Training in how to fight, learning to hurt others on one hand, or to defend oneself on the other, does not necessarily instill moral lessons. Only moral training does. Many of the martial arts at one time had (or claimed to have) some kind of supplementary ethical/moral study or emphasis, but that was secondary to the physical training. They read religious texts, philosophical works, meditated, prayed and had spiritual counseling. There was also an expectation of correct moral behavior. There was a societal expectation for their behavior. One must strive to be a good and honest person, to be one. Action is more important than intent. If you do good deeds, for whatever reason, you are doing "good". If you do bad deeds but are thinking about or talking about being good, you are still doing evil. Your Actions are important and determine who and what you are. If you lie about what you teach to fool students, try to mystify students, or just act in an unethical way, are you being an ennobling person? I have heard of masters who sexually harassed, abused or intimidate their students and others. I have heard of masters who took advantage of their students sexually, emotionally and financially. I have seen black belt competitors threaten Judges at tournaments because they did not like their call, and none of the officials did anything about it. Does that show the self-discipline we are told the arts produce? Teachers have told me gleefully about their black belts who go out looking for fights to beat people up. They like to try out their well-rehearsed techniques on the unsuspecting public. Is that ethical? There are teachers who use their students or people they know they can beat, as punching bags (and the students pay for the honor?) While there is a place for this in martial training process, as it may be appropriate in some cases, usually it is not. If they want to get into a real fight they should fight someone close to their skill, maybe someone they do not know they can beat easily? What in the old days was called a fair fight. They are the Black belts and "masters", if they do not act ethically, after all the years of training, then how can anyone claim that the arts magically cause students to be better people? "Put your evil doings away from my sight. Cease to do evil; learn to do good. Devote yourselves to justice." Isaiah 1:16-17. End
ZR440 Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 A decent article. I fully agree that MA will not turn someone into a virtuous individual. I have seen too many undisciplined artists at tournaments that think they are almighty. That aspect of MA can be contributed to a poor instructor, clear and simple. And that is not to say that what the individual does outside the dojo is always controllable or preventable, but rather it can be emphasized that what is learned should be respected and not flaunted. The article pointed to the fact that if sports is supposed to make a better person than why so many football players in jail? Again, it all comes down to those who taught the sport and even the parents of those individuals. Blackbelts who look for fights. What a joke. They've obviously never messed with someone who has a concealed weapon. It's happy hour somewhere in the world.
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