Bon Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 " 'I liken the common approach to martial arts training to looking at an elephant through a keyhole.' Our points of view would differ depending on which part of the animal we saw. Seeing the trunk, we would think the elephant to be like a snake; seeing the legs we may think it to be like a hippopotamus, and so forth. As martial artists, many of us are faced with this selfsame problem. On our journey toward becoming more complete and effective martial artists, we need to step back from that keyhole, open the door and go inside for a better look. The aim of this brief article is to introduce the reader to a more complete picture of the fight dynamic. Let me put it plainly. A fight can often be broken down into three parts; the beginning (the scary bit), the middle (the hopeful bit) and the end (the rolling around on the pavement bit). No seriously; to broaden our understanding of the fight dynamic, it is absolutely necessary that we undergo training and practice in each of these disciplines: Pre-fight Skills - Post-fight Skills and Post-clinch Skills. Skill in one of these areas, does by no stretch of the imagination mean that we have some kind of 'skill by default' in another. To be forearmed is to be forewarned -as they say! Pre-fight Skills: these are the set of skills that provide us with some sort of strategy before the fight begins; or at least, before actual blows are landed. In other words, those skills that allow us to handle the pressure as the situation is suddenly thrust upon us or as it is building up. It is while working on our 'pre-fight' skills that we will develop our 'fence'- as Geoff Thompson has coined it. We will also develop our 'initial shot' and our verbal skills whilst working our pre-fight strategy. Thinking about it is not enough, just as thinking about a right cross is not enough; we have to practice, and practice well if we are to become proficient and skillful at the pre-fight game. This is where we will also learn about adrenaline-dump; what it means to us and to our opponent. We should develop some management strategies and put them into practice. The pre-fight phase is where many, many fights are lost or won. Best Bets: Geoff Thompson's books and videos on - Fear - The Fence - The 3 Second Fighter - etc. Post-fight Skills: these are those sets of skills that by far, the majority of martial artists are constantly working on. That is, how to hit, kick, elbow, knee and head-butt along with how to not be hit, kicked, elbowed, kneed or head-butted. These are those skills that every martial artist, to varying degrees of effectiveness, practices and develops. Unfortunately, they often do so, to the exclusion of both 'pre-fight' and 'post-clinch' skills; leaving them susceptible to a rude and painful awakening when their first real fight comes along. In short - post-fight skills are those skills you will need to employ if the fight has kicked off, you are still standing, as is your opponent, and you want to hit him more times than he can hit you. Best Bets: Whatever you are doing can probably be made to work, if you train hard enough and actually hit things during your practice. If you are short on time though; boxing and kickboxing will provide you with the best return on your investment of time. Post Clinch Skills: these are those skills that you will need to have after you and your opponent have clinched or have hit the ground. Clinching and grappling, and this still seems to come as a bit of a surprise to the majority of martial artists, happens in many, many instances if the fight is of the no-rules variety. The problem that martial artists are confronted with is that they spend a lot of time sparring, and whilst sparring, no-one clinches, and they are understandably left with the impression that grappling just doesn't need to happen if they don't want it to. Well; that's because the other guy your sparring with, is probably playing the same game you are. Test it out; offer last weeks sparring partner ten bucks/dollars/pounds/reindeer or whatever you use to buy Geoff Thompson's books with, to see if he can clinch you just once during the first 10 seconds of your next match. So you'll lose your ten reindeer, and Geoff will miss out on another sale, but you will possibly have gleaned an important bit of info - yes, grappling is almost inevitable if your opponent wants it that way. So if you haven't knocked your opponent out in the first few seconds of the fight, you are probably grappling by now! Best Bets: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (no, I am not impartial) So there we are: Pre-fight ~ Post fight ~ Post Clinch … a little work on each of these areas will stand you in better stead, next time it happens 'for real'. If I had to prioritize - and I only had time to work two of the three areas; for reality-based self defence, I would choose Pre-fight and Post-clinch. " - John Will ( https://www.bjj.com.au ) It takes sacrifice to be the best.There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KickChick Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Thanks for sharing that article of John Will's. I read another of his articles on the future (evolution) of Martial Arts .... and that was very good also. "yes, grappling is almost inevitable if your opponent wants it that way. So if you haven't knocked your opponent out in the first few seconds of the fight, you are probably grappling by now!" ..... so concentration in most martial arts is to knock the opponent out quickly so as not to end up in a grappling situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeRo Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 i like kickchicks post. but i seriously dont think it happens like that. it doesnt go to the floor straight away like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 I've been to two of John Will's seminars, anything from him is very high quality. It takes sacrifice to be the best.There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 From this article Mr John Will seems very knowlegdeable on his subject. But then again, he is a BJJ practioner and as they train to grapple, then he is likely to think that way. I dont agree that grappling is a certainity, there are many factors that can influence combat. I think in a real life situation, it is import to be able to handle many attackers so being on the ground does not help with that. In the street you are more than likely to fight a coward and six of his friends. Perhaps Mr Will, is correct however, in a "no rules" competition, that grappling is "more" than likely. Is he talking about UFC style combat? I think when its between martial arts styles, its all a question of distance, if say a TKD practioner can keep his/her distance against a BBJ practioner then TKD would win the day, then again, if the BJJ person can close that distance, then BJJ would win the day. Horse's for Courses. Take Care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 No, he's not talking about UFC style combat. Btw, he can strike too! He's more than proficient in other striking arts apart from BJJ. I think you missed the point if one person wants to clinch, it's gonna happen. Why don't you do what he said and offer a training partner 10$ if he can clinch you within 10 seconds of a fight. Watch the way a fight escalates, you see one guy talking trash to the other guy, they generally get pretty close and push and shove and unless they both train in some kind of striking art, more times than not, they're gonna go to the ground. I saw this happen many times on the weekend. I've only just realised how important the pre-clinch part of the fight is, this is what determines whether you fight or not. It takes sacrifice to be the best.There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 ok, I understand that. I dont understand what you mean by "clinch". Also, I train equally from grabs as I do from strikes, so I know how important it is to be able to deal with both. Take Care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Clinch as I know it is when one guy is close to the other guy and is holding him in close.. You know how you see thai boxers 'clinch', or even boxers when they're fighting ? It takes sacrifice to be the best.There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade_Lotus Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Personally, I have been attacked on the street several times by someone that I knew wanted to take it to the ground, they tried with all their heart to make the fight go to the ground. Indeed, they ended up on the ground, but I didn't go with them. It's narrow minded to believe that if someone really wants it to, then the fight will go to the ground, the opposite can be said, if someone really wants it to, the fight will not go to the ground. A grappler has an inherent disadvantage..they have to grab you, and take you to the ground. I don't know where this enlightened knowledge comes from that the fight will inevitably go to the ground. Only 2 of my street fights have gone to the ground....and that's only because I knocked my opponent down, with a stike or a throw, and decided to "finish" the job. I didn't have to sit atop them and pound at them, it was my choice..not theirs. The fight was over before I put them on the ground, I merely chose to continue, I could have stopped, and the fight was over...basically, when I put them on the ground there was no longer a fight, I just drove my point home. Kensai, is right , this guy is a BJJ, he will not write something contrary to that of what he believes, nor would anyones else. It doesn't make it truth or fact. My point is, the fight will not inevitably go to the ground, no on knows what will happen, you must prepare for all, but, from my experience, it has been far too easy to keep the fight from going to the ground. You can't pattern a fight, you can't say this is how all fights will be. Every street fight I have ever been in, was different...some I didn't have this "pre-fight" stage, i was just suddenly and randomly attacked, and never have I clinched...well, maybe when I was in 4th grade, but that's the only time. The moment you pattern a fight, is the moment you set yourself up for the unexpected. I'm sorry but I hold no value in this article whatsover. That's just my opinion. Understand this, a man without honor, is not a man at all, but a coward in disquise.Animis Opibusque Parati Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai_Kick Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Things I have learned from being in street fights and from watching them... - ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! - There is NO HONOUR on the streets; ANYTHING goes (NEVER FORGET THAT) - NO technique(s) is guaranteed to work (NONE!) - Theory of training means NOTHING! Reality of training means EVERYTHING! - You MUST train and learn to take a hit - Street fights look like bad MMA fights - Any fool can punch or kick so be careful - The majority of people don't know anything about grappling - Many people don't know what do to in a clinch - Always strike first; never wait to be hit, because the other guy could have a knife in his hand! (I learned this from personal experience & I have the scare to prove it) - A fight can start standing, go to the ground and back up again - You HAVE to learn how to fight on your feet - You HAVE to learn how to fight on the ground - A rake to the eyes or a kick to the groin will NOT ALWAYS end a fight - 10-20 guys want to fight you, (DO NOT FIGHT!) run like hell! - YOU ARE NOT INVINSABLE! Limits Are Not Accepted. They Are Elbowed, Kicked And Punched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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