Youthful Masters.

[maisweh]

If you've self-promoted yourself in rank for whatever reason(s), then I don't and won't respect you and your newly found rank. I would've threw up if my Dai-Soke had self-promoted himself to Judan, then I would've told him to get out of my life forever.

Hhhhmmmmmm...I suppose that the By-Laws make it OK. Now I'm feeling really sick right in the pit of my stomach.

This post makes me giggle...

I can't believe that people are that fixated on the stripes on a belt, where someone wont respect someone for it, or tell them to "get out of my life".

[maisweh]

As to the video's I'll repeat part of something I posted a little while ago on this subject.

This raises some interesting points :

.....That you can ‘play’ at wrestling and it still works. If you ‘play’ at striking, it will not work ! Has this lead to the currant view that grappling / wrestling will always win ?

You are right in that playing at striking will not work, but from my limited experience a lot of karate guys can never really strike full force as they could injure each other. The problem then is that you would never know if the strikes would work if you ever needed to use them.

With my even more limited experience of BJJ, rolling with other guys is completely different. You don;t play, you really try your hardest to submit them, which is much harder than it looks and I honestly think that after a few years of training you would know that it would work as you are sparring against real resistance. That's just my opinion

so karate guys cant really hit full force because they might injure? yet kickboxing, MT, sanshou and boxing do practice full force... how about the more likely answer is that most people here think they train in an effective art or manner and really don't.

but nope, no one will admit it.

I don't imply that 'karate guys' can't strike, or that karate is ineffective - which is your implication. Sparring is playing and within karate the culture of non-contact free sparring has become dominate. So, when a visitor to a karate club wants to 'spar', there is a cultural difference. We're going way off topic here though and later I'll start a more relevant thread.

Thanksfully we dont play "tickle tag" or "non touch". theres only one association i know who does that

[sensei8]

If you've self-promoted yourself in rank for whatever reason(s), then I don't and won't respect you and your newly found rank. I would've threw up if my Dai-Soke had self-promoted himself to Judan, then I would've told him to get out of my life forever.

Hhhhmmmmmm...I suppose that the By-Laws make it OK. Now I'm feeling really sick right in the pit of my stomach.

This post makes me giggle...

I can't believe that people are that fixated on the stripes on a belt, where someone wont respect someone for it, or tell them to "get out of my life".

It's not the identifiers on said belts, it's the self-promotion that's the problem. That's what I don't respect; it's the self-aggrandizement of it all. And yes, I don't want to be around those types, which is my right.

Imho!!

[bushido_man96]

How about the karateka, his name escapes me now, that's been a Nidan for over 3 decades!! When asked about why he's STILL a Nidan, his answer is..."That's the last rank my Sensei promoted me to before he passed away!" He's the shining example of integrity; a rare commodity in the MA, when rank is the topic.

Is it integrity? So let's say a youngster starts a Martial Art, passes his first testing, and then his instructor dies. Should he stay an orange belt for the rest of his life because "that's the last rank his instructor promoted him to do before he died..."??? To me, that just sounds kind of crazy. Now, does this instructor still seek out knowledge from other instructors, and simply choose not to take on new rank? If that is the case, then what is the difference, other than the number behind the dan?

[devil dog]

I have seen "youthful masters" as you suggest and some where absolutely beyond impressive but most were given a belt.

The way I see it there are those out there that only have an interest in getting to the next rank. If you really think about it if you devote yourself entirely to the MA it is possible to achieve what most of us would think improbable.

IMHO I don't know when they have time to prepare. Once I started teaching, time to train for tests became less of a commodity. Once I had to add more classes and more nights a week due to the number of students and their varying ranks it was next to impossible to find time to train for myself. I have been a Godan for more years than I want to say and have passed up promotions too many times because not only did I know I was not doing what was necessary in my own training but the fact of the matter was it was no longer important to me (not really a test for Rokudan and above, mostly political).

I look less at the rank or belt and more at the person. If they have a nidan rank but their skill is at a nikyu level then you know that they were given the rank. If they are at a Nidan rank and they perform at a Sandan level then you know they deserve the rank no matter the age.

Age is irrelevant unless you're talking about child black belts. I do not subscribe to the belief that kids should be awarded BB's.

[sensei8]

How about the karateka, his name escapes me now, that's been a Nidan for over 3 decades!! When asked about why he's STILL a Nidan, his answer is..."That's the last rank my Sensei promoted me to before he passed away!" He's the shining example of integrity; a rare commodity in the MA, when rank is the topic.

Is it integrity? So let's say a youngster starts a Martial Art, passes his first testing, and then his instructor dies. Should he stay an orange belt for the rest of his life because "that's the last rank his instructor promoted him to do before he died..."??? To me, that just sounds kind of crazy. Now, does this instructor still seek out knowledge from other instructors, and simply choose not to take on new rank? If that is the case, then what is the difference, other than the number behind the dan?

To the first bold type above...For that Nidan, I'd say that it's both loyalty and integrity!! Surely, you can respect his wishes and desires. Therefore, what was for him isn't for anybody else; it's a personal choice, as it must've been for this Nidan.

To the second bold type above...I'm not quite sure if he's seeking out knowledge from other instructor's in and/or out of his core style, but, I'm sure he is constantly. Again, it's been HIS personal choice to continue as he has per rank. We don't have to like it and/or agree with it, but, that's fine too.

I, too, didn't want to advance in any shape way, and/or form because Hachidan was the last rank I earned from Dai-Soke. But I finally did test for Kudan, and that was at the constant demands from my peers within the hierarchy. I've regretted it in every way and everyday!! "They" wanted it, not I!!

It's HIS journey, for that, I will respect his desires!!

[bushido_man96]

I respect his desires, as well. I agree that is a loyal showing, although I don't think its necessary. I don't think it would be wrong to seek out leadership from someone else after losing an instructor in order to continue progressing. Loyalty is good. Blind loyalty, not so much.

[sensei8]

I don't think that it's necessary either, but it is for him!!

If what this Nidan believes is blind loyalty, I suppose, I beg to be as blind in my loyalty towards Dai-Soke.

I progress in knowledge/experience because I desire to!! The things of Shindokan that I've still not learnt from Soke and Dai-Soke can be found in the scrolls. But, imho, we're only taking an educated guess as to how they're to be learnt and taught to myself and others of the Shindokan circle.

[DWx]

After a certain point I think rank just becomes another tool for maintaining hierarchy.

[sensei8]

After a certain point I think rank just becomes another tool for maintaining hierarchy.

How so??