Youthful Masters.

[IcemanSK]

With Kukkiwon Taekwondo (sometimes called WTF style) there is a lot of grief given for the young age at which "master" rank is possible. Because we have a junior BB (or "poom"), it is possible to reach 4th Dan at 18 years old. In Korea, a 4th Dan needs to take an instructor's course and pass it in order to teach TKD there. A 4th Dan & successfully completing the course allows one to grade students to BB themselves. (In the US, all one needs is a 4th Dan KKW to recommend a student to BB.) So young masters are not abnormal in KKW Taekwondo.

One thing about KKW Taekwondo is that there are minimum ages in which one can attain certain BB rank, as well as minimum time in grade requirements before one can test to the next grade. For example, one needs to be 36 years old before testing for 7th Dan and be training regularly as a 6th Dan for 6 years. 9th Dan KKW isn't possible before 9 years of training as an 8th Dan: and one must be at least 55 years old.

In KKW Taekwondo, 10th Dan is only posthumous (as of now) and is very rare. There have been a few honorary 10th Dans given, but that too, is a rare thing.

While 4th Dan is considered a rank at which one can teach under one's own name, it is considered a junior rank among master ranks.

In my more than 30 years in Taekwondo, I've met many 4th-5th Dans who were in their 20's (and even a few teen 4th Dans). Some were flighty kids; most were solid martial artists who were teachable.

When I was 25 and a student chaplain in a hospital, a few of the medical students were old high school classmates. By 27, they would be medical doctors with full privileges to practice medicine on their own. Nothing we do on the mat is as important as practicing medicine. Titles can certainly go to one's head, no matter what they are. Whether 9th Dan or white belt, we all have something we can learn; we just need to be open to it.

[maisweh]

titles do certainly go to peoples heads. personally, the term coach is fine to me, and i get a laugh when people sign papers calling themselves grandmaster or supreme sifu or great soke, whatever that title may be. nothing is more humbling than starting bjj, getting choked and tapped by white belts half your age.

i dont care what style your'e in, what rank you have, i will respect it, as you've earned it. you may be a 25 year old 4th dan who only had to write a paper, or a 50 year old 5th dan who had to get his butt kicked for 8 hours, but whatever you did to earn your rank, you did it.

saying you wont respect or wont bow to someone because of how old they are, well thats being condescending and disrespectful. your martial art and rank is not any more valid than anyone elses. if you think it is, go roll with a bjj practitioner or spar with a kickboxer.

stay humble, and stay hungry.

[lowereastside]

Lupin1 - thanks for the info.

[sensei8]

Again, rank must be kept in its proper context. It's up to the individual to decide for themselves if they do or do not agree with said situation. Agreeing or disagreeing with the status quo of any said individual is ones own choice.

[alexis101]

What is your opinion on what I call youthful masters? I have met and read about gentlemen well under the age of 30 ranked 5th dan (26-27). Another was awarded 10th dan by his mid 30's. Is this really possible? I thought you had to be older than that to attain master level in most organizations. Your thoughts?

So young huh

Enormously gifted and extremely persevering people??

[njd]

titles do certainly go to peoples heads. personally, the term coach is fine to me, and i get a laugh when people sign papers calling themselves grandmaster or supreme sifu or great soke, whatever that title may be. nothing is more humbling than starting bjj, getting choked and tapped by white belts half your age.

saying you wont respect or wont bow to someone because of how old they are, well thats being condescending and disrespectful. your martial art and rank is not any more valid than anyone elses. if you think it is, go roll with a bjj practitioner or spar with a kickboxer.

stay humble, and stay hungry.

I've just finished with Tang Soo do after reaching my goal of 1st Dan. Looking to do something a bit different and so for now have chosen BJJ. You are right when you say it is humbling rolling with those guys!!! Even the second belt takes like 2 years (Blue) and I'm amazed at the skill level and how they can wrap me up so easily. Then again I have no grappling skills at the moment. None of the guys I trained with, even 5th or 6th dans, would ever win against these blue belts as they are completely different. They also spend their time grappling and can't progress unless they have proved their skills. Whereas a lot of our time was spent doing forms etc.

[guird]

I'll voice an unpopular opinion. A belt should be given to a practitioner based on their skill level, regardless of age.

[DWx]

titles do certainly go to peoples heads. personally, the term coach is fine to me, and i get a laugh when people sign papers calling themselves grandmaster or supreme sifu or great soke, whatever that title may be. nothing is more humbling than starting bjj, getting choked and tapped by white belts half your age.

saying you wont respect or wont bow to someone because of how old they are, well thats being condescending and disrespectful. your martial art and rank is not any more valid than anyone elses. if you think it is, go roll with a bjj practitioner or spar with a kickboxer.

stay humble, and stay hungry.

I've just finished with Tang Soo do after reaching my goal of 1st Dan. Looking to do something a bit different and so for now have chosen BJJ. You are right when you say it is humbling rolling with those guys!!! Even the second belt takes like 2 years (Blue) and I'm amazed at the skill level and how they can wrap me up so easily. Then again I have no grappling skills at the moment. None of the guys I trained with, even 5th or 6th dans, would ever win against these blue belts as they are completely different. They also spend their time grappling and can't progress unless they have proved their skills. Whereas a lot of our time was spent doing forms etc.

Although that is true and a very good point, I'd also imagine a blue belt wouldn't be able to strike very well or beat a 5th or 6th dan in a punching and kicking contest.

[bushido_man96]

titles do certainly go to peoples heads. personally, the term coach is fine to me, and i get a laugh when people sign papers calling themselves grandmaster or supreme sifu or great soke, whatever that title may be. nothing is more humbling than starting bjj, getting choked and tapped by white belts half your age.

saying you wont respect or wont bow to someone because of how old they are, well thats being condescending and disrespectful. your martial art and rank is not any more valid than anyone elses. if you think it is, go roll with a bjj practitioner or spar with a kickboxer.

stay humble, and stay hungry.

I've just finished with Tang Soo do after reaching my goal of 1st Dan. Looking to do something a bit different and so for now have chosen BJJ. You are right when you say it is humbling rolling with those guys!!! Even the second belt takes like 2 years (Blue) and I'm amazed at the skill level and how they can wrap me up so easily. Then again I have no grappling skills at the moment. None of the guys I trained with, even 5th or 6th dans, would ever win against these blue belts as they are completely different. They also spend their time grappling and can't progress unless they have proved their skills. Whereas a lot of our time was spent doing forms etc.

Although that is true and a very good point, I'd also imagine a blue belt wouldn't be able to strike very well or beat a 5th or 6th dan in a punching and kicking contest.

I agree, its all relative. Its only natural that the guys who spend their time ground fighting will excel there, especially against someone who has no grappling experience at all.

[andym]

I'll voice an unpopular opinion. A belt should be given to a practitioner based on their skill level, regardless of age.

Does maturity and experience not enter into your process ? Plus, all of those I have encountered holding excessive grades are lacking in skill and most are SELF AWARDED grades !