Traditional MA; No Longer Respected!?!

[sensei8]

I do think that no matter what it is, its traditions were handed down to generations to more generations as time slowly meandered on.

"Look, do it this way and not this way" says some founder of some type. When it caught on, it was deemed agreeable and effective to do it as it's meant to be done. "Yeah, that does work, as you said it would, and it doesn't work as you said that it wouldn't."

Wrestling and Boxing, for example, I'm sure, as in everything else that's created, had/has a traditional means and beliefs form its beginning, and as they chipped away at it, it became what it is today. Evolution depends on traditional ways from its creation. Otherwise, how can it evolve?? It was birthed, and a means and a way of doing it was agreed upon because it was a good thing to do so. Nothing can evolve on its own. Someone's got to kick the ball or swing the bat before someone can say..."Hey, here's a better way, let's examine it and see if it has merit."

Shindokan HAD its beginning; its traditional means. However, changes/evolutions were created, but not before a traditional way of doing Shindokan had been around for some time per our Soke. While the modern ways of doing Shindokan is upon us, we know that the traditional ways of our Soke are STILL THERE. Had to be, or there'd be no modern means.

Imho!!

[bushido_man96]

Yes, everything starts somewhere. But its not a "tradition" when it starts. It takes time to become a tradition. Then, as time goes on, its important to determine if things should keep being done the way they started or not.

[sensei8]

Yes, everything starts somewhere. But its not a "tradition" when it starts. It takes time to become a tradition. Then, as time goes on, its important to determine if things should keep being done the way they started or not.

How long does it take? Who establishes it?

You'd love my grandma's cooking; traditional!! Or you could love my cooking from a box; modern. If I was you, I'd eat grandma's cooking WAY before I'd eat mine.

Again, labels have the ability to destroy the core of the MA!!

[Hawkmoon]

Yes, everything starts somewhere. But its not a "tradition" when it starts. It takes time to become a tradition. Then, as time goes on, its important to determine if things should keep being done the way they started or not.

How long does it take? Who establishes it?

You'd love my grandma's cooking; traditional!! Or you could love my cooking from a box; modern. If I was you, I'd eat grandma's cooking WAY before I'd eat mine.

Again, labels have the ability to destroy the core of the MA!!

Spot on!

Labels! yes

We say Martial Arts, and when we do images of Ancient warriors, Samurai, Shoguns, Kanji characters, Bushido code and maybe even Confucius and his quotes come to mind and with that we see honor, respect, humility and grey haired old masters all of this we associate with the far east.

MMA on the other hand is new, its modern and stems from the western world, it has no such imagery or history, what we need to understand is it correctly uses the term Martial Arts in its name as it is a collection of these traditional systems put together into a new fighting system.

....but we still hear 'martial Arts' and when we do we get all that ancient imagery come racing back again!

The mistake is ours for the assumption not there mistake for working with a new system, its ours they don't have a history like Karate or Judo.

They have yet to make a history to look back upon, to generate such images and points from events past.

MMA'ists who remembers 'Tank' Abbot or an easier one to recall Ken Shamrock?

Honestly?

Without looking them up on the web?

Who watched them fight?

MMA is new and will be the new kid in the MA world for a few more years yet!

(This is nothing to do with respect or honor simply acceptance by the population/the masses of it as a Martial Art like karate and judo....)

[sensei8]

Yes, everything starts somewhere. But its not a "tradition" when it starts. It takes time to become a tradition. Then, as time goes on, its important to determine if things should keep being done the way they started or not.

How long does it take? Who establishes it?

You'd love my grandma's cooking; traditional!! Or you could love my cooking from a box; modern. If I was you, I'd eat grandma's cooking WAY before I'd eat mine.

Again, labels have the ability to destroy the core of the MA!!

Spot on!

Labels! yes

We say Martial Arts, and when we do images of Ancient warriors, Samurai, Shoguns, Kanji characters, Bushido code and maybe even Confucius and his quotes come to mind and with that we see honor, respect, humility and grey haired old masters all of this we associate with the far east.

MMA on the other hand is new, its modern and stems from the western world, it has no such imagery or history, what we need to understand is it correctly uses the term Martial Arts in its name as it is a collection of these traditional systems put together into a new fighting system.

....but we still hear 'martial Arts' and when we do we get all that ancient imagery come racing back again!

The mistake is ours for the assumption not there mistake for working with a new system, its ours they don't have a history like Karate or Judo.

They have yet to make a history to look back upon, to generate such images and points from events past.

MMA'ists who remembers 'Tank' Abbot or an easier one to recall Ken Shamrock?

Honestly?

Without looking them up on the web?

Who watched them fight?

MMA is new and will be the new kid in the MA world for a few more years yet!

(This is nothing to do with respect or honor simply acceptance by the population/the masses of it as a Martial Art like karate and judo....)

Solid post!!

The problem isn't respect within the MA, it's the acceptance that boils over the still waters from every style of the MA. What kicks me in the shin each and every time is when the STYLE, and its practitioners speak as though their style is better because they're not of the traditional mindset.

People are fallible!! Me and you!!

[bushido_man96]

Actually, MMA could be considered a modern version of Pankration, which goes back to the ancient Olympic games.

As far as "traditions" go, there really is no set rule on how long ago one started to consider it a tradition. One can even start a tradition, like Monday Pizza Night. All it takes is consistency over time to maintain it.

And I do remember Tank Abbot.

[sensei8]

Actually, MMA could be considered a modern version of Pankration, which goes back to the ancient Olympic games.

As far as "traditions" go, there really is no set rule on how long ago one started to consider it a tradition. One can even start a tradition, like Monday Pizza Night. All it takes is consistency over time to maintain it.

And I do remember Tank Abbot.

Nice..I like it..Solid post!!

Tradition VS Modern: I can have a traditional salad with its traditional ingredients, or, I could have a wrap, which has all of the traditional things inside.

[vantheman]

I think the terms "traditional" and "modern" are being misused in this case. MMA contains some very old martial arts that have been handed down through time. The difference is that it is taught in a sport-based trained method, rather than an art-based method. To try and call one traditional and one modern does not seem like an accurate means of grouping arts. I think grouping them based on purpose, training methods, origins, ect. are better ways to analyze and interpret arts. Likewise, I think asking if "traditional" martial arts are respected is a fairly trivial matter.

[Hawkmoon]

I think the terms "traditional" and "modern" are being misused in this case. ....The difference is that it is taught in a sport-based trained method, rather than an art-based method. ....

That's good way to look at this, yes, I'll go with that!

Mix a 'wind up mechanism' with a radio and you have a 'clock work radio, new device!

The fact its a mix of two established technologies is merely its beginnings its foundation, how it is taught and how it is practiced is what makes this or that modern or traditional!

[bushido_man96]

I'm wondering where the concern for the respect issue is directed? Is it concern that MMA stylists, or RBSD stylists, don't respect "tradtional" Martial Arts? Or is it a concern that people who aren't even in the fold of the Martial Arts community don't respect traditional styles because of what they see in MMA?

Then, the next point to consider is two-fold: first, do you care that these folks don't "repsect" what you do? If you don't, then you've taken care of the second aspect, which would be, what is it that they don't respect? What aspects, practices, etc, and will you change them in order to catch up with the times, and gain that respect you desire for the art you study?