Traditional MA; No Longer Respected!?!

[sensei8]

Traditional MA, for nowadays, seems to no longer be respected, for one reason or another.

Traditions based on way-back then were respected, but as we look at traditions that surround the MA in a whole, respect for the old-ways are scorned away. It seems that those that scorn said traditions, aren't respecting their core beliefs, both on and off the floor.

Traditional MAists are placed on shelves just as only another type of antique; dusty, and with not much value outside. Trying to keep said traditions alive, imho, isn't a wasteful life because without traditions, then what can one hope for in and out of any MA.

There are those who believe that traditions are ineffective, therefore, useless, without value for those who are serious minded MAists. Those who want to keep the traditions alive, are scorned as though they are still living in the past, accusatory tones that speak that those same traditionalists refuse to come to the modern age.

Just because one's a traditionalist, it doesn't mean that their, for example, Karate-do, isn't effective in today's MA world. Change is important, and it must be embraced, in that, a traditional, for example, karateka's, techniques are as effective yesterday, as they are today, and as they'll be tomorrow.

Methodologies surrounding ways of training might be old and outdated, but that method that was old, is still new today. Training in the three K's is laughed at, both inwardly as well as outwardly as methods that don't address todays attackers. This, imho, is nothing more than an assumption, and it drags me into said summation without cause. How I train today isn't much more different than yesterday. In that, my techniques are even more so effective because of my applied effective knowledge. Knowledge that's spanning over 49 years!!

If it works, then why should it be criticized and lampooned by those who don't agree. Possibly, they are laughing at themselves because they don't understand, in that, they disagree with the ways of a traditionalist MA, thus, MAist.

Traditions, whether they're agreed upon or laughed at, should be appreciated one way or another because without traditions, then there can be no future comprehensions and/or improvements in said betterment.

Your thoughts, please!!

[ps1]

I think you can blame that on MMA. Despite the fact that many many many MMA experts spent years in a traditional dojo, people only see what is going on in the ring. So they think they must go to an MMA gym to get skilled in actual combat.

They feel things like kata are antiquated and useless.

[Harkon72]

Do I have to tell you that I'm with Bob on this? My Karatedo class has a Kickboxing class straight after it. Some kickboxers laugh and take the mike out of me in my Ironed Karategi, calling my Spiritual Path antiquated and useless. This was until one night, my Sensei made me do Kata over and over until I dripped with sweat. A kickboxer put his hand up and asked "What's this Rubbish he's doing with that hand when he does that silly knifehand block?" My Sensei, refering to my Nukite hikate pull back, said. "With that hand he takes your Xiphoid Process and rips it off the base of your breast bone; it's a terminal technique; there are no points in true Karatedo Philip." Enough said.

[sensei8]

What are traditions for? They're for all to understand that without traditions, even the most basic proponent of the MA, nothing can be appreciated, therefore, nothing of value can be learned as it should be.

You compete? That's good! I did too, up until 1993. But, my karate-do ISN'T for competition, no matter the venue, not then, not now, and not ever!! While I did compete, I never lost sight of the traditions that my Soke and Dai-Soke held so tight and close to their hearts. To the day they both died, I feared them because their karate-do was two things. One: Traditional!! Two: Tenaciously abrupt!! Now, I can say that my karate-do is in concert with theirs because that's what they instilled in me, and of all things, I'm a traditional MAist, to and through.

I'm a traditionalist! Please accept my traditional values because while they define me, they do not disappoint me, or my students!!

[Zaine]

I like traditional Martial Arts. I am a lover of history and all of the work that went into making a system gives it depth and, for me, reason to be around. I love that the first system I learned was a traditional system. This being said I think that staying in our traditional roots without evolution is not in the spirit of our respective founders. I think that a part of the reason the systems that we practice are still around is that the systems evolved and I think that we should, as instructors, continue to practice. Does this mean that we walk away from the traditional root? Absolutely not. It means that while observing our respective lineages we continue to add what is effective to continue improving our system.

As far as MMA being to blame I can agree that it certainly doesn't help most times. It's what is out there the most in the public eye so it is what the consumer wants. I would also contribute some the our need for instant gratification.

[yamesu]

While I tend to agree with the MMA sentiment to a small degree, I think it has more to do with young males wanting to be "tough" and find "quick fixes" nowadays than anything else.

They see octagon style fighting and it has a brutal "wow" factor, along with hype that karate and tkd is not effective in the UFC, and so obviously they must be outdated right?

Funny thing is the most seasoned MMA fighters have solid traditional bases.

In saying that, all traditions become outdated. Preservation becomes a hobby more than necessity. Look at the Japanese tea ceremony. Nowdays you can get a teabag and have a cup in under 2min. But people still practice the values that go with the traditional ceremony none the less. Does this make it useless? I say no. It makes it interesting and contains an element of spirituality, self discipline and control most people will never know.

[wagnerk]

I like traditional Martial Arts. I am a lover of history and all of the work that went into making a system gives it depth and, for me, reason to be around. I love that the first system I learned was a traditional system. This being said I think that staying in our traditional roots without evolution is not in the spirit of our respective founders. I think that a part of the reason the systems that we practice are still around is that the systems evolved and I think that we should, as instructors, continue to practice. Does this mean that we walk away from the traditional root? Absolutely not. It means that while observing our respective lineages we continue to add what is effective to continue improving our system.

Agreed

As far as MMA being to blame I can agree that it certainly doesn't help most times. It's what is out there the most in the public eye so it is what the consumer wants. I would also contribute some the our need for instant gratification.

In addition to this, I also believe that it doesn't help that alot (not all mind you) "traditional" martial arts clubs and associations only teach the "primary" skill sets of that art, eg with Karate (that includes arts like Tang Soo Do, etc) the primary physical skill set would be punching (strikes) and kicks. Yet there are locks, throws, pins, etc (the "secondary" skills)... that aren't being taught. Just like in Judo there are strikes and kicks, but in some more of the sport oriented clubs/associations they are only taught at the higher levels.

Then there are "non-contact" karate associations, that aren't evolved karate, rather de-evolved karate - where the ancient art of origami is more effective. Apart from that there are McDojos/McDojangs - cash for belts... And the list goes on...

[sensei8]

While I tend to agree with the MMA sentiment to a small degree, I think it has more to do with young males wanting to be "tough" and find "quick fixes" nowadays than anything else.

They see octagon style fighting and it has a brutal "wow" factor, along with hype that karate and tkd is not effective in the UFC, and so obviously they must be outdated right?

I agree!!

Funny thing is the most seasoned MMA fighters have solid traditional bases.

This is true. What I've seen is that these same MAists don't hesitate, for a moment, to speak against the traditions of others, and sometimes, even against their own.

In saying that, all traditions become outdated. Preservation becomes a hobby more than necessity. Look at the Japanese tea ceremony. Nowdays you can get a teabag and have a cup in under 2min. But people still practice the values that go with the traditional ceremony none the less. Does this make it useless? I say no. It makes it interesting and contains an element of spirituality, self discipline and control most people will never know.

I concur!! In that, if something is still being practiced, then it can never be outdated, imho.

[andym]

I think it's relative. I travel around Britain alot, on training courses for work. Always take the chance to train where I am, even MMA gyms etc. And never really had a 'Your stuff don't work, traditional arts are rubbish', confrontation or even conversation. But I just want to train - I'll do there class, so they see an ability and willingness, before the topic comes up. The odd you kid may start and are usually stopped by the experienced students. I'm finding an interest, a lot of questions. Plus, alot of coaches miss the respect and discipline of a traditional class.

[Kusotare]

In Japanese traditions "Keiko Shokon" means...

"Reflecting deeply on the past - illuminates the future"

I quite like that, and, if you're not into that, then perhaps practicing a traditional MA isn't for you.

K.