Need Help: Dojo Sparring Practices

[tallgeese]

First up, welcome to KF! Glad to have you here and we're looking forward to seeing where you go on this journey.

Here's my abbreviated two cents on the matter. There has been a lot of good advice and solid posts on the matter.

From my stand point, sparring is important for just about every reason that everyone has pointed out. I will not belabor them. Even if a school is 100 percent self defense oriented and focuses on scenario based training (a great thing by the way) they should still be doing sparring. As mentioned, attribute development, spontaneity training, ect. All are important reasons to be doing it.

How you do it depends largely on what you're doing it for to start with (tool development, movement focus, structure work, ect) and this is often driven by what you're in martial arts for to begin with. A self defense school will have a different take on sparring than a point sport school or a specialized rule set school.

I used to be harsh on different schools of thought with this. But with age (and hopefully wisdom) and a good does of exposure to martial thought in places such as this (thank you KF) I've really backed off that.

Martial arts is big and has plenty of room for just about any goal. what you have to do is make sure that the sparring you're school is doing is leading you in the direction you want to go.

Additionally, sparring shouldn't always be the same. The point was made that even full contact fighters don't train full contact everyday. This is true and it's true for a reason. I'm a "contact is key" kind of guy. There always needs to be some just to make sure that you're body mechanics are right. That said, I might spar very minimal contact if I'm focusing on working the structure of my attacks. Or might be very hard if I'm pressure testing tactics that I've been working on for some time. Or will be somewhere in between for developing new movements into my plan.

So you can see, it's not a simple answer. Hopefully, this gives you some thoughts to chew on as you dissect schools. Lastly, go and check out potential schools. Actually set thru classes and see what they do and the methods they use. Then, match your pick to what interests you the most.

Keep us posted on what you find and where you end up. Good luck.

[sensei8]

Many solid posts here on the subject.

Only thing I'd like to add for now is that sparring, imho, is a MUST!! Don't spar, then don't ever get into a fight. Why? The MAist that doesn't spar is one that doesn't understand how to approach any type of sparring. Sparring is akin to learning how to be an airline pilot but not ever wanting to experience the tantamount of flight. It's akin to learning how to be a surgeon but not ever wanting to experience the tantamount of the scapel.

How schools of the MA will address their brand of sparring will vary; none train the same, even under the same governing body. Contact, imho, is essential to sparring because reactions on both sides of the glove must be understood and learnt. Notice that I'm not saying that training partners should try to kill one another while on the floor. NO!! Guage the contact level and in that, allow the experience help to decide just how much contact will be allowed, if at all.

I need the contact! I want the contact! I love the contact. Greg, our Kancho, and I do try to kill one another. We engage with one another with one purpose: Absolute havoc!! We'll have it no other way with one another, and in that, contact is our MA aphrodisiac. However, Greg and I don't have to spar in the manner of which we both enjoy. No. We both also train in other ways that will be uplifting to our training, and in that, to not forget what our Soke and Dai-Soke has taught us: Peaceful patience with one another!! Yes, we can bang with the best of them, but, often times, Greg and I just love to do the more peaceful ways of sparring. The type of sparring that's found in many dojo's. Greg and I have never seriously hurt one another, but that doesn't mean that we've never been hurt while engaging in our way of sparring. Accidents happen, and in that, from time to time, someone's going to be injured while engaging in some type of sparring. That's why it's called an accident.

To contact or not to contact, that is the question. I believe that it must be agreed upon with both/all parties, and, it must be allowed by said instructor, and in that, not the governing body. Training is a personal thing and not an administrative thing!!

1) Do not make contact. They stop their strikes before hitting their opponent. I guess this is so that they don't risk injuring someone, but is this as effective in teaching self defence as sparring that makes contact. I wouldn't think so. If not, why?

I believe that this is an effective way to TRAIN in sparring. If one can control, and control, imho, must be understood and achieved, imagine what said technique would feel like if it made contact. "Wow. That was close!!" is sure better than, "MEDIC!!" while training in sparring. The no-contact methodology of sparring/kumite is an effective way of teaching the aspects of sparring as ONE IS LEARNING the nucules of sparring. Have to learn how to not hit before one can learn to hit!!

2) One of the dojo's does not practice sparring. This place has two man drills that practice the application of self-defence techniques but doesn't have any free sparring. When I first heard this, I thought they were leaving out what seemed to be a part of self-defence training necessary if you want the ability to put it into any kind of practical and effective use. But the teachers argument made sense to me.

This method has merits! The application of sparring is as important as one learing the application of said kata(s); a vital aspect not to be ignored, imho. Applications must be understood, otherwise, flapping our bodies without means and/or purpose is about as useful as a car is without a steering wheel.

Both methods above have importance, but it's how they're approched by ones instructor means the world to the sparring world as well as in the MA world. Sparring...contact or not contact...applications...and the like...sparring is critical if one is to learn how to effectively defend/protect oneself.

Sparring is a game, and in that, in order to win at this game, one had better learn and train in every aspect possible because no attack is the same.

[student_karateka]

1) Do not make contact. They stop their strikes before hitting their opponent. I guess this is so that they don't risk injuring someone, but is this as effective in teaching self defence as sparring that makes contact. I wouldn't think so. If not, why?

I haven't had the chance to *really* test this but I believe that it would be easy to add power to techniques practiced with control (ie no or light contact) in the dojo. I would love to try full-contact sparring just to get some idea for what kind of "chin" I have, if for nothing else.

[Comericus]

I think it's probably a gamble whether SD techniques practiced only against a compliant partner holding one fist out are going to prove useful in a confrontation.

Sparring, however, gives you the ability to hone your speed, aim, ranging, and timing, regardless of the contact level. It also gets you used to operating with an elevated heart rate.

I like sparring with as much contact as possible, without getting injured all the time. If you don't pick up bruises from time to time, you're not doing it right.

That being said, sparring is not the same as self-defense, but it is part of the equation.

[brickshooter]

My criticism of sparing is that the way it's set up in most schools where you have one instructor who acts only as the referee leaving the student to figure out his own mistakes. Ideally I'd assign one instructor to one student and his job is to provide hands on coaching (as a personal corner man) during the sparing session itself. I think that immediate (during sparing) feedback is vital to help the student progress. This is probably more beneficial than the issue of full or semi contact.

[sensei8]

My criticism of sparing is that the way it's set up in most schools where you have one instructor who acts only as the referee leaving the student to figure out his own mistakes. Ideally I'd assign one instructor to one student and his job is to provide hands on coaching (as a personal corner man) during the sparing session itself. I think that immediate (during sparing) feedback is vital to help the student progress. This is probably more beneficial than the issue of full or semi contact.

Nice interesting concept!!

[AdamKralic]

I'd choose the school that sparred the most. (and with atleast light contact)

You can work on form/kata/weapons at home and get 100% of that art but with 0% of the watchful eye of an instructor. If you listened and observed well in class however...you'll have a great idea what you are ideally to do.

You simply cannot get 100% of sparring unless you have a human across from you. More often...the better.

I'll take the fighter that has fought hundreds of fights over the fighter that fought dozens of fights...every time.

Just like the person that has done their forms hundreds of times has the advantage over...

[sensei8]

I'd choose the school that sparred the most. (and with atleast light contact)

You can work on form/kata/weapons at home and get 100% of that art but with 0% of the watchful eye of an instructor. If you listened and observed well in class however...you'll have a great idea what you are ideally to do.

You simply cannot get 100% of sparring unless you have a human across from you. More often...the better.

I'll take the fighter that has fought hundreds of fights over the fighter that fought dozens of fights...every time.

Just like the person that has done their forms hundreds of times has the advantage over...

Solid post!!

I'm a huge proponent for sparring...can't get enough, imho!!

[CredoTe]

My criticism of sparing is that the way it's set up in most schools where you have one instructor who acts only as the referee leaving the student to figure out his own mistakes. Ideally I'd assign one instructor to one student and his job is to provide hands on coaching (as a personal corner man) during the sparing session itself. I think that immediate (during sparing) feedback is vital to help the student progress. This is probably more beneficial than the issue of full or semi contact.

How we operate sparring/kumite in our dojo is similar to what you describe...

When sparring, kyu students only spar black belts/instructors. The instructors act as the "aggressors" in a self-defense situation, and must spar at the kyu student's level of skill; if a student hasn't been shown a spinning back kick or arm bar takedown, then the aggressor cannot use those moves.

Now, while a match is on-going, if the aggressor gets a series of moves in on the kyu student, or the kyu student incorrectly uses a series of moves on the aggressor, then we aggressors (instructors) will walk the student through the situation showing the technical side of things. Then, we try the series again to give the kyu student an idea of how successfully use the series of techniques.

Note that when I say "series of moves" or "techniques", I mean it as a figure of speech and not as a prearranged set of moves/techniques...

[Nabil Kazama]

I am confused by this issue, I do like the idea of making some form of contact when sparring, but in Shotokan it's not usually full contact. Semi at best. Which begs the question, how does one apply proper technique if you're not allowed to make contact with your opponent?