have you ever had doubt in your M.A. s effectivness ?

[BlackKnight]

I know that my art is effective--the question is, am I effective at using it.

You nailed it!

[rucass]

t's how you apply the training in various situations that differs from style to style (and school to school).

Rather than say "WThis is not the fault of the style, but rather the application of the training within the style. An elbow to the side of the head is the same, whether you call it Isshinryu, TKD, Shotokan, WingDings Finger food or reality training.

You are probably learning bone breaks, elbows, in close fighting, groundfighting, etc. These are all things that can be gleaned in just about every art out there. Iell, that was 12 years wasted", see what you know that can be applied in your current training regimen. If there is absolutely nothing that can be applied, then you either really did waste 12 years or your new training isn't as reality as you think it might be.

I feel that I would've preferred to learn to actually apply any of the kata techniques to an actual random attack. I do feel its the styles approach to teach for fights that could be avoided and not really preparing students for the fights they can't walk away from. Kumite is great for exercise and sport, and some may find it useful , but in a dog fight it is useless, no kata technique is used in ti so what is the point? I have learned actual applications to scenarios thur fellow fighters who have practiced the foundational styles(Kuntao) and recognizing movements reinterpreted in the katas, but seemingly misunderstood system wide. i am probably getting off topic so maybe this is for another thread. I'll search and see. I have a few thoughts and observations on this...

John

[Kusotare]

As has been mentioned in other threads - the martial art done in most dojo these days is practiced as Budo.

Budo is not self defence.

I’m inclined to agree with rucass in that if you really want to learn how defend yourself very well in the most expeditious way possible - go to a group that specialises in Self Protection.

With that in mind –the OPs question about doubting your MAs effectiveness comes down to your definition of the word and you expectations of same.

[CredoTe]

I know that my art is effective--the question is, am I effective at using it. That's what pressure testing is for. Some people do it through competition, while others do it through their occupations, but generally the people with the most confidence in their arts are the ones who have pressure tested themselves the most.

Absolutely! Well said

Each new path in a practitioner's journey begins with that searching, that questioning, that doubt. For me, it's much like a cycle; about every 5 years or so, I realize that I knew nothing 5 years ago. These cyclical realizations lead me down new or parallel paths on my journey, and always brings new meaning to "a beginner's mind".

[lowereastside]

Wastelander says "That's what pressure testing is for"

That's a key element - to pressure test. I like to use the 1 to 10 scale - 10 being a street confrontation - we start out at 1 then go to 2 and 3 and so on.....we ( me and my students) try to get close to 10 as possible without killing ourselves.

Doubt our effectiveness? - My journey is filled with different stages when I started it was the fantasy stage - my style is the best my teacher is the best. then came the arrogant stage - this system or person is no good. Then came the reality stage - this brought me back down to earth - somewhat - and I started to questions certain things. Then came the practical stage - the most effective way for me - and to pass down my experience. That being said - I still have elements of my other stages in me - hard to get rid of old habits LOL - but I'm getting better. One of the most difficult things not only in Martial Arts but in life is to be truthful with ourselves - I would like to think -LOL - I've done that to some extent.

Doubting is a good thing - it made me thing outside the box the safety of the Dojo or Kwoon.

In the last 4 months I witnessed 2 confrontations - one was this past Saturday at a Restaurant - between two individuals who knew each other - and one pulled a knife. The other was on a subway platform - and both pulled a knife on each other - don't know what happened I got on my Train. It's not always going to be empty hand vs. empty hand. Just my 3 cents worth.

[rucass]

So what in anyones training prepares you for the random chaos of an attack?

[tallgeese]

So what in anyones training prepares you for the random chaos of an attack?

There's lots of ways to do this across just about any type of training you can take part in. It's a building process from learning the raw movements, to fluid application, to linking movements to deal with surprise in spontanoeous attack/ defend drills, to adding resistance and contact, and finally to scenario based training.

Within those concepts, you can construct all sorts of drills. For instance, if one's working on grappling, add strikes, then when people are occupied throw a training blade on the floor somewhere. Or a second attacker. Or a firearm simulator.

Utilize armor and and work spontaneous response, not from a sparring standpoint but actually mimic an ambushing attack. Then do the same sorts of things.

When you're working these things, never "do knife defense" or "gun defense" keep random variability going so that the person doing the stress inoculation training isn't pre-loading a response.

So, it can be done. Very easily and well, in fact. But one has to take time to structure drills to capitalize on the "randomness" of combat. It's important to note, you can't train this way all the time. 1) you'll probably get hurt- this sort of thing tends to be higher intensity. 2) you'll never get any better technically- you need time to sharpen tools, not just test them.

That said, some sort of stress inoculation should be a part of any training dedicated to self defense.

[sensei8]

Again...

Proof is on the floor!!

[armanox]

What metric are you defining effective by?

With that said, having defended myself, and knowing the stories of others who have come before my (some of my instructors, for example), I don't doubt the effectiveness of the art. Am I prepared for any situation? No, and I don't think my frame could handle it. Am I better off then had I not trained at all? Yes.

[sensei8]

What metric are you defining effective by?

For me, I define effective as one being able to stop said attacker without prejudice and absolute.