When did martial arts become a kid thing?

[Sifu88]

I'm not complaining and I don't mean to sound that way, it's more of a curiosity I've always had. In all the history of martial arts they have always been for warriors, if not for warriors then for people looking to protect themselves in some way, always adults. I know kids were trained but not as much as they are now. I guess what I've always wondered is when did martial arts go from being something that when you mention it people understand it to be something serious, to something where the knee jerk response is "Oh hey I want to put my son/daughter in that".

Again I'm not complaining just wondering when/how the shift happened.

[BlackKnight]

Probably sometime in the early part of the 20th century when it was introduced into the school system for the school children.

[tallgeese]

There is also the slow degradation of the combative side of the arts across the board in the US. Some of that is due to the increasing focus on the sportive aspect and the self-development side of things.

Another part of it is traditional martial arts that refuse to acknowledge modern learning methods and training technology that could increase efficiency of fighting.

The lack of a dedicated, and different, children's program is also a factor. If people see kids doing the exact same things as children's classes, and those classes are taught with the same focuses, why would they assume that there is an adequate reason for adults to do them?

People see this and it affects their perception.

The greater this perception shift occurs, the more children focused things could become.

[Harkon72]

Martial Art, Martial, of Mars - to wage War.

Not a themed Kindergarden! I know this issue very well. There is a trend in the UK to start classes young, to get a Dan grade at 10 years old, have a sport career then give it up when you go to collage. I restarted Karate at 38 years old, I train with a traditional Karate Sensei. We have children's and cadets classes, but this is where the sport and development finishes. My Sensei, his two other Head Instructors, two Sempai and myself are Men, I'm not being sexist here by the way. Karatedo is our life, we follow a Warrior's Spiritual Path. When we practice Bunkai, it hurts. In Kumite you are to defend yourself at all times. From the first to the last Bow of the session there is Respect, one Warrior to another. We are great friends, Brothers, but to us this is not a Sport, we are not playing games.

[Sifu88]

Martial Art, Martial, of Mars - to wage War.

Not a themed Kindergarden! I know this issue very well. There is a trend in the UK to start classes young, to get a Dan grade at 10 years old, have a sport career then give it up when you go to collage. I restarted Karate at 38 years old, I train with a traditional Karate Sensei. We have children's and cadets classes, but this is where the sport and development finishes. My Sensei, his two other Head Instructors, two Sempai and myself are Men, I'm not being sexist here by the way. Karatedo is our life, we follow a Warrior's Spiritual Path. When we practice Bunkai, it hurts. In Kumite you are to defend yourself at all times. From the first to the last Bow of the session there is Respect, one Warrior to another. We are great friends, Brothers, but to us this is not a Sport, we are not playing games.

Sorry I haven't been replying I went out of town for the weekend and just got back. I understand where you are coming from, I find a lot of the times when I tell people that I do martial arts I get this look like I run a day care or something and I don't mind teaching kids, it's not that, it's just that I never quite understood how martial arts turned into little league.

[Hawkmoon]

(Sorry a passion driven post, one written as my honest opinion, on things we have seen/watched & witnessed.)

When did MA become a kid thing?

To me, to be honest that happened soon after Hollywood got on the band wagon and decided it new best and so had us watching what it decided was the real thing!

"That" action figure punching his way through a steel door!

An episode of "The six million Dollar man" back in the 70's, or the hero who jumps from one tree(or wall) to another to get to the top ...pick any Fung-Fu film!

Not forgetting TMNT and the like that came about, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter all with the sudden appearance of super powers.....

(...an extension of board breaking!)

The list of things the silver screen or worse that grey box in the corner, made MA appear as if a joke to the grown up mind.

To this and possibly as important if not more so is the massive success MA had in the early days, a little like the .com boom and collapse, but to me honestly the worst thing is what MA did to itself!

Not this or that ART (MA) directly rather the students and demonstrations of there ability .....

edit....edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hydrick

The fact that a person claims to have magical powers.......seriously!

Lets not forget 'He-Man' no not the cartoon character, the guy who's walking around this or that tournament that 'bigs' himself up and even stands an inch taller to impress a pretty girl .... so that's humility out the window then, 'MA - 101' = do not show off!

MA is not about any of this, it never was!

In the early days it was in its ignorance, and a certain amount of immaturity simply showing us and the world what it could teach you! No one really understood how a stack of wood was broken and so MA was shrouded in mystery.

After the boom period the mystery was gone, the supermen had been debunked and all that was left was the impression Hollywood left on the children.

Rant over.

sorry

I feel it had to be said.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Hawkmoon

[ps1]

To me, to be honest that happened soon after Hollywood got on the band wagon and decided it new bast and so had us watching what it decided was the real thing!

Well before Hollywood, Funakoshi was putting karate into public schools. I'm not saying that Hollywood didn't play a part in it. Just that they aren't the only ones to blame.

[danbong]

And Funakoshi was following in the footsteps of his primary instructor Itosu who created the pinan katas for teaching middle school students.

[Hawkmoon]

In this modern world we've realized that a child who shows an ability in sport, if encouraged to do more in that sport (a child prodigy) can go on to become one of the greatest ever!

This has only been done as a main stream serious science since about the mid 80's.

Funakoshi & Itosu were way WAY ahead of there time they were doing this back in the 20's if not earlier!

Sorry but to say they were in some way partly (however small) to blame, no I don't see it.

They were giants of there time, and had real vision to understand the need to nurture the student from an early age to be the best they could be.

Sadly as it was the mystery that shrouded MA, and event the desire to protect MA from outside influence didn't help the situation. By the time the teachings and true meaning of MA was starting to be understood and even taught correctly the damage was done.

We in the western world, well we had no understanding of what this was, as the far east hadn't a complete understanding of how the western world adopted ideals from other cultures and so the imaginations of the western mind simply went nuts!

(Superpowers...seriously!)

The 'boom' period well this was the 60' and 70's but by the 80's MA was in decline. Like any new 'thing' there is a massive surge of interest and then it calms down, settles and reaches what will become it normal level of acceptance in society and it moves on from there.

Think about it for a moment we all (I do assume but feel I'm 100% correct) have had a comment or jibe, insult, jokes made or thrown at us because we wear baggy PJs or silk suits, make funny sounds and bow a lot to each other?

We ignore these as a lack of understanding on the other persons part. (maybe we even mutter to ourselves: Whatever, or get over it)

I've an incident that drives my frustration about the way MA is viewed, it relates to the punch of all things, or rather the moment of focus applied to the punch/strike.

The incident was a about the 80's and the guy I was speaking with had become aware of what I did in my free time and decided to instruct me in the secret way of the punch.

No matter how hard I argued, showed or demonstrated the science of the movement I could not break his mind set that there was no secret mystical energy that was being called upon!

He was in his mid 20's well educated but he still had this idea that there was a magical power involved!

As I say the damage was done Hollywood had 'won', superman was real and MA had been discovered to NOT be the way to become him!

(Edit to correct grammar)

Edited October 29, 2013 by Hawkmoon

[sensei8]

If a school of the MA can't teach the effectiveness of said MA without hurting their students, then the doors should be closed forever. IMHO!!