Are real katanas fragile?

[Kusotare]

Real nihon-to swords were designed to cut bone

No, they weren't!

K.

[Zoodles]

Of course they were. Unless your only target is the belly, you are always going to hit bone.

[Kusotare]

Of course they were. Unless your only target is the belly, you are always going to hit bone.

Have you trained in Koryu Bujutsu?

K.

[Kusotare]

I have - and for many years my sensei always taught us to avoid deliberately trying to cut through a mass of bone.

Number one, you could break/chip your sword and number two, your sword would more than likely get stuck!

You mention the only target being the belly (due to its lack of bone), but what about ligaments and arteries etc.?

Remember, most Edo period samurai weren't heavily armoured (if at all)! And therefore it wouldn’t take a lot for a skilled swordsman to cut a man in such a way that he would die (or be seriously incapacitated) – without damaging his sword too badly.

K.

[Harkon72]

I wonder how Samurai reacted to Mongol chain-mail.

[Kusotare]

I wonder how Samurai reacted to Mongol chain-mail.

Badly

Edited October 30, 2013 by Kusotare

[Kusotare]

Samurai and a standing army are two different things.

[Zoodles]

Which Ryu are you trained in? I am not trained in a Koryu Bujutsu, but I am trained in Haedong Gumdo, which is basically Toyama Ryu Kenjutsu with some Korean names added in.

Look at the upper guard of Jodan no kamae..whats the target of Jodan no kamae? Its the head. Kesa Giri Strikes from Hasso No kamae come down diagonally across the rib cage. the preferred targets for Chudan no Kamae are the hands, forearms and wrists. Areas where you will always encounter bone. Test cutting on criminals were expected to cut through the criminal, bone and all.

If you read Heihō Ōgisho by Yamamoto Kansuke, you will see many of his attacks are aimed at severing the wrists or striking the head. This is the same school that Musashi himself came from. Is striking bone good? of course not. But a well trained cut will cut through bone just fine, and a chipped sword that kills is better than a pristine blade that does not.

[Kusotare]

Is striking bone good? of course not.

This is my point, it is not preferable and most Kenjutsu schools will target areas which will minimise contact with a substantial mass of bone.

I haven't said that Japanese blades are not capable of cutting through bone, but it is a common misconception that their primary role / design intent was purely to dismember people.

Toyama-ryu is quite different from most Koryu sword schools and, perhaps has an entirely different raison d’être.

But that’s for another discussion maybe.

K.

[devil dog]

to answer your question RW - yes and no. it really depends on the material that they are made from, how they were heat treated and tempered, if they were differentially clay hardened or not, what type of quenchant was used, and if the user actually has any skill when using one.

If the proper accepted materials have been used Tamahagane, 1055, 1075, 1080, L6 Banite, etc, the heat treatment was correct (as far as proper temperature, soak time, and time), proper quenchant was used for the specific steel that will not produce to brittle of a blade, and the proper temper is performed with a differentially hardened blade then you should have no problems.

The problems you get typically is a martial artist with no formal training in Iaido or Kenjutsu goes out and buys a cool looking sword for $100 or so and decides he wants to practice Tamishigiri and ends up breaking the sword due to cheap material or improper technique.

If a katana is made from stainless steel do not use it to cut with! If your looking to purchase a Katana for Tamashigiri practice you'll need to do your home work and inquire about the material used, construction, blade geometry, if it is a solid construction or was made in the traditional manner with a soft core, and most importantly if it was constructed for Tamashigiri.

Keep one thing in mind if you are planning on using it you need proper instruction on how to use it.

And yes you can shatter steel if the carbon content is too high and was not heat treated and tempered correctly. I have witnessed a practitioner snap a brand new Katana in half on the first cut. Dangerous exercise when you are dealing with cheap materials. However if it is a good quality blade you can make hundreds of cuts without fear of damage to the sword orr yourself providing that your cutting technique is correct.