Full contact SHOTOKAN competition...any interest out there?

[chrissyp]

I ask this out curiosity, but for the fellow Shotokan stylist, would be interested in doing a full contact kumite?

Now, i'm NOT talking about turning Shotokan into Kyokushin.

I'm talking about Shotokan rules, (no adding of leg kicks, allowing reverse punch to the face still) with emphasis on keep the fundamentals, style and philsophy of Shotokan, mostly to go with the

"one strike, one kill" philosophy, but done in a more alive manner.

Some of you my ask "why not just do Kyokushin"... and I have three answers to this:

1) Kyokushin is a great style, but there's no schools, at least in my area (Near cincinnati Oh), and there sure is hell no knockdown karate competition for hundreds of miles near me.

But there is plenty of Shotokan competitions and schools

2) the second is test what the fundamentals of Shotokan in a more realistic/alive setting , for those who want to test it. I also think this would be a good segway for more karate stylist to get into MMA (should they choose to) and would open doors of more clients to go to a traditional karate school, while sticking to their traditions and style.

3) I know people who want to do more of a full contact style, but don't want to trade shots like kyokushin/ Oyama karate styles tend to (not that it's a bad thing, just not everyones flavor) and this

Thoughts? opinions?

[sensei8]

I don't know, but I've visited quite a lot of Shotokan dojo's over the many, many years, and I got to tell you, I've seen quite a lot of full contact Kumite amoungst thier Dan ranks.

[bassaiguy]

I'm a Shotokan person and I've done a bit of full-contact training/fighting over the years. I'd say that if you're going to maintain Shotokan rules and fight full-contact you MUST wear protective gear. It is far too easy to hurt someone permanently when you hit them full-contact in the face. That's why Kyokushin doesn't permit face strikes in competition. That said, it is my belief that every Shotokan person who wants to maintain the martial aspects of the style should try some full-contact (with adequate protection) by the time they are brown or black belts. If you want to see how quickly matches end when Shotokan is used as a full-contact style look at the old JKA kumite of the 1970s and 80s. There are plenty of clips on-line.

[chrissyp]

I don't know, but I've visited quite a lot of Shotokan dojo's over the many, many years, and I got to tell you, I've seen quite a lot of full contact Kumite amoungst thier Dan ranks.

My old kickboxing coach, who is also an school Shotokan guy. I showed him and explained kyokushin type competition and this was his response was something along the lines "That's how all Karate used to be. That's how I competed during the 70's and 80's. We learned without mats"

To me which is neat, and it makes it sound like it's lost something a long the way...he then goes to stat the reason he thinks modern karate schools, not just Shotokan is students parents. They complained about the lack of mats and protection gear, that how dare they train their child so hard.

So in an effort to keep money/students, they softened it up to keep the income to keep the money.

After doing some reach and studying old video, I do see a lot of full contact Shotokan that has happened in competition, but as you said, it's in the Dan ranks. which isn't nessesarly a bad thing, and I get why that is.

I'm newish to Karate, but not muay thai/mma/ and boxing, so i'm used to something like that, just wish it was allowed in less ranks for those who want to do it.

[pers]

If you like to see the Shotokan reverse punch in full contact watch Lyoto Machida knock his opponent out in UFC !

Shotokan caters for every age and ability group , not everyone can and want to train and follow what Machida is doing althought I respect him a lot and think he has done good publicity for Shotokan and demonstrate what pure Shotokan technique can do if you go full contact .

So my answer to full contact Shotokan for average people like me would be NO .... they are too dangerous and can cause permanent injury to the face and body .

Imagine hitting your oppoenet with the low side kick to the ankles or knees , they can cause permanent damage to the knee , so is it worth it ?

definitely not if you are just an average guy taking up karate as a hobby and keep fit and self defence , after a while there be no one left to train with !

practice your timing and distance and strategy and test your bottle against opponents and do your best to perform good techniques but with control to avoid injury , practice the power and devastation and lethality of your technique on a bag or a dummy , give it your best shot and don't hold anything back ! hit it with all you got , if you can knock down a heavy dummy that swiwels on its base and knock it over then you got enough to knock almost anyone over !

by the way , when I say perform with control I don't mean to say you don't touch your opponent , I would still aim to hit the jaw with speed and power but I would hold back hitting my opponent deep enough to hurt him .

[AdamKralic]

Imagine hitting your oppoenet with the low side kick to the ankles or knees , they can cause permanent damage to the knee , so is it worth it ?

Anything permanent? No. Not worth it.

[mal103]

A good Dan grade should moderate their punch/kicks so that you know you have been hit at full speed/power but it should also not cause damage.

Obviously the downside is the odd mistake than can be harmful, also Brown or new Black belts sometimes try to hit you as hard as possible without pulling it.

I like the idea of full contact but I have learnt a lot of better applications so striking groin/neck etc would need to be against the rules - tricky to learn to fight but to also remember what you can't do.

[chrissyp]

Imagine hitting your oppoenet with the low side kick to the ankles or knees , they can cause permanent damage to the knee , so is it worth it ?

Is that even legal in regular shotokan competition? direct kicks to the knees? i've never seen any Shotokan competition where you can attack the legs.

I'm not sure we're on the same page, when I say "full contact" shotokan, i'm not talking anything goes, or using techniques that would be too dangerous for the ring. i'm talking about the current rules in regards to targets/striking area, and what you can strike with, with allowing of intentional knockouts, and fought in a continuous or point style, depending on your flavor.

I don't see how that would be any more dangerous than muay thai or an MMA fights i've seen.

Edited September 16, 2013 by chrissyp

[KyokanRik]

An interesting topic. Based on the style of Karate I practice I may be a bit biased in my opinion but I think adding full contact to Shotokan, with regards to certain conditions being met, would only serve to add yet another awesome dynamic to the style.

[chrissyp]

An interesting topic. Based on the style of Karate I practice I may be a bit biased in my opinion but I think adding full contact to Shotokan, with regards to certain conditions being met, would only serve to add yet another awesome dynamic to the style.

Thank you! I agree! Another reason i'm for this type of competition, is for the mental aspects.

someone once told me on here "fighting/sparring in the ring is just the same as it is in the dojo or the street" and which I disagree with 100%

I've done light contact sparring competition in TKD, and i've fought MMA and muay thai, and there is no way that the mindset is the same... knowing someone is going to try to crush your face or snap your arm, makes for a different mentality knowing some one is only going to try to light tap your face and chest.

It's one reason of two reason I like the idea of full contact Shotokan, the first is the X factor of fear and emotion, knowing that isn't going to be some game, that you're going into a fight. That takes a different mentality, which is semi simulates the mindset (Keep in mind I said semi simulate, not 100% replicate) what would happen being confront in a street fight/self defense situation, allowing someone to be prepared better mental, knowing what to expect SOMEWHAT.

and this leads into the 2nd reason, which is it would raise the confidence in knowing you own ability, and confidence in the art they practice. knowing it would work in a more realistic situation. That yourself and the style has been tried by fire and it is works when nessesary.

But that's also my personal preference. I love muay thai, boxing, kyokushin, mma not because they're full contact, but because they're tested in a more realistic manner in competition, where you have to apply it with nerves on the line, with a truely resisting, aggressive opponent,the trial by fire.

But that doesn't mean a full contact fight is for everyone, and that's ok, and you don't nessesarly need to fight to have self confidence or technique that works.

The whole idea behind this, is giving people who want to test themselves in their particular style and rules, in a competition that's a more realistic situation then light point sparring.