"Dojo Disease" & Going Through the Motions

[CredoTe]

I first saw the term "Dojo Disease" used / coined by bassaiguy in his forum topic here:

http://www.karateforums.com/dojo-disease-vt45017.html

As an instructor, I've encountered "Dojo Disease" (as bassaiguy describes) in a few students. Another anomaly that I'm sure we've all encountered as instructors is certain students in class that are "just going through the motions". You know how it is, these students do not really seem to want to be there (perhaps forced there by their parents or whatnot), or they think that they don't need to train hard (if they just look like they're doing it right, they'll get promoted).

So, a conundrum I ponder includes the following questions:

Are "Dojo Disease" and "just going through the motions" related?

Are they the same thing?

Are "Dojo Disease" and "just going through the motions" merely symptoms of a larger issue? If so, what do you believe is the larger issue?

In the handful of students I've had in the past that were inflicted with either "Dojo Disease" or "just going through the motions", I didn't have much success in "training it" out of them. So...

Any thoughts, advice, experience, wisdom, etc that you can provide, please do!

I have a follow-up thread related to this that I will start once I have a good chunk of responses here...

Edited August 3, 2013 by CredoTe

[JusticeZero]

If they're just going through the motions, they aren't improving. They just don't advance.

[mal103]

We have a couple of students who have just scraped through brown belt but will go no further unless they improve. The speed isn't too bad but whatever we try they never seem to put in more effort, they sometimes train more often thinking that this is enough - but it's how they train that needs to go up a gear.

[Lupin1]

My instructor talks about "Brown Belt-itis". Here's his blog post on it-- http://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2012/02/brown-belt-itis.html

I feel like I'm in a slump with my martial arts right now. I've got no motivation at all to practice. Hopefully once September hits and my life gets back to semi-normal I'll snap out of it. That's my hope, anyway.

[sensei8]

Are "Dojo Disease" and "just going through the motions" related?

I believe that they are.

Are they the same thing?

I believe that they are.

Are "Dojo Disease" and "just going through the motions" merely symptoms of a larger issue? If so, what do you believe is the larger issue?

I do believe that they are part of a larger issue. That issue, I believe it to be, is birthed by our society believing that the short cut to any known goal has to be much better than going through the many untold years that it truly takes.

MA students have discovered this to be true. Hence the creation of many McDojo's and the like. In that, the other co-issue is money; unfortunately one begets the other intentionally.

Promotions are given out just like some mutant piece of candy. It's no longer of any value to have to truly earn any promotion, and this is true when instructors and the like are handing out 100% pass ratios to their students.

This breads false securities into their students and before it's too late, they're finding out the truth at a horrifying cost; someones life or serious injury. They can't defend themselves out of a wet paper sack even after a hole had been provided; they believing that what they've wrapped around their waists, are meaningless out in the streets of hard-knocks.

Students who want the fast promotion deserve what they get; meaningless instructions, but what an expensive lesson to finally learn. And for those students who just go through the motions without any fruition, the same goes for them as well. For those students who don't want to hear the truth...get out of my dojo until you can be honest with yourselves first!!

These type of students can be helped, but it'll take tons of patience [for the instructor] as well as discipline [for the student who WANTS the help] to free them of this type of training bondage. But, again, the student MUST want the help from an qualified AND caring instructor who's 180 degrees away from the uncaring instructor who'll say anything and do everything that would help that damaged instructors' P&L statement, and not the students betterment.

For example, a bad driver can be taught how to be a great driver AND a safe driver; but it'll take time to correct the bad muscle memories that have deeply rooted and misguided. Both, the instructor and the student have to accept and allow time to properly nourish the starving wanting that's trying to escape from it's training dungeon of times past.

In time, the hopeful student will begin to shake loose the chains that have been binding them for those many years that taught them ineffective MA. Once that student has finally emerged triumphant as the MAist that will partake willingly in the type of training that's not only needed, but the training that is required across the board.

That "new" student will gladly pour out swimming pools full of blood, sweat, and tears to become solid in their MA training as well as in the never ending journey.

They'll begin to see the true value in being totally and completely accountable for their training. That accountability will require a new learning set of skills because that needed accountability is alien to them, and in that, they'll have to be taught to accept that level of accountability across the board.

It will not be an easy road for both the student as well as the instructor, but it'll be well worth everything in the long run. Besides, nothing should come easy; hard work is required for hard results!!

[CredoTe]

If they're just going through the motions, they aren't improving. They just don't advance.

And from:

We have a couple of students who have just scraped through brown belt but will go no further unless they improve. The speed isn't too bad but whatever we try they never seem to put in more effort, they sometimes train more often thinking that this is enough - but it's how they train that needs to go up a gear.

We currently have three students who are just going through the motions / have Dojo Disease; two youth students (11 & 12 yo), and one adult student (17 yo). They are all three in a "holding pattern" at their current ranks, and won't advance until we see improvement. The 11 and 12 yo don't seem to want to be in class (parents making them do it - which is OK in some ways for a certain period of time) and don't seem to care they're not advancing. We've had "the talk" with their parents about maybe being time to consider other activities, but the students insist that they want to be in class. The 17 yo has pride / ego issues and has a "full cup" all the time... We've had discussions with him regarding his attitude and that it is impeding his improvement. In all three students, training them harder hasn't worked, training them in different / alternative ways hasn't worked (people learn in different ways, tried finding the best learning method); the main reason we haven't kicked them out of class is because they haven't become a significant distraction / hindrance to learning for the others (thus, giving us a chance to work through this with them).

My instructor talks about "Brown Belt-itis". Here's his blog post on it-- http://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2012/02/brown-belt-itis.html

I feel like I'm in a slump with my martial arts right now. I've got no motivation at all to practice. Hopefully once September hits and my life gets back to semi-normal I'll snap out of it. That's my hope, anyway.

Good share Your instructor's post has good wisdom in it. But, I think your instructor's "Brown Belt-itis" is only half of what is described by "Dojo Disease", or perhaps a more specific manifestation of it. It's not that our students mentioned above are neglecting to practice "lower" skill and kata in preference for more advanced stuff...

As for other things, I'm sorry to hear you feel you're in a slump. We encounter many hills, valleys, and crevasses in our karate journey; it's easy to get "bored" or disillusioned with our training or skill after practicing the same things for what seems like the millionth time. I think we've all been there (speaking from one instructor to another); and, I think, maybe that's one the differences between us as experienced instructors and students making their early way on their journey: realizing we're in a "slump" or "just going through the motions" and snapping out of it (as you say).

Are "Dojo Disease" and "just going through the motions" related?

I believe that they are.

Are they the same thing?

I believe that they are.

Are "Dojo Disease" and "just going through the motions" merely symptoms of a larger issue? If so, what do you believe is the larger issue?

I do believe that they are part of a larger issue. That issue, I believe it to be, is birthed by our society believing that the short cut to any known goal has to be much better than going through the many untold years that it truly takes.

MA students have discovered this to be true. Hence the creation of many McDojo's and the like. In that, the other co-issue is money; unfortunately one begets the other intentionally.

Promotions are given out just like some mutant piece of candy. It's no longer of any value to have to truly earn any promotion, and this is true when instructors and the like are handing out 100% pass ratios to their students.

This breads false securities into their students and before it's too late, they're finding out the truth at a horrifying cost; someones life or serious injury. They can't defend themselves out of a wet paper sack even after a hole had been provided; they believing that what they've wrapped around their waists, are meaningless out in the streets of hard-knocks.

Students who want the fast promotion deserve what they get; meaningless instructions, but what an expensive lesson to finally learn. And for those students who just go through the motions without any fruition, the same goes for them as well. For those students who don't want to hear the truth...get out of my dojo until you can be honest with yourselves first!!

These type of students can be helped, but it'll take tons of patience [for the instructor] as well as discipline [for the student who WANTS the help] to free them of this type of training bondage. But, again, the student MUST want the help from an qualified AND caring instructor who's 180 degrees away from the uncaring instructor who'll say anything and do everything that would help that damaged instructors' P&L statement, and not the students betterment.

For example, a bad driver can be taught how to be a great driver AND a safe driver; but it'll take time to correct the bad muscle memories that have deeply rooted and misguided. Both, the instructor and the student have to accept and allow time to properly nourish the starving wanting that's trying to escape from it's training dungeon of times past.

In time, the hopeful student will begin to shake loose the chains that have been binding them for those many years that taught them ineffective MA. Once that student has finally emerged triumphant as the MAist that will partake willingly in the type of training that's not only needed, but the training that is required across the board.

That "new" student will gladly pour out swimming pools full of blood, sweat, and tears to become solid in their MA training as well as in the never ending journey.

They'll begin to see the true value in being totally and completely accountable for their training. That accountability will require a new learning set of skills because that needed accountability is alien to them, and in that, they'll have to be taught to accept that level of accountability across the board.

It will not be an easy road for both the student as well as the instructor, but it'll be well worth everything in the long run. Besides, nothing should come easy; hard work is required for hard results!!

Awesome post Great advice... I'm seeking experienced MAs' advice because I definitely do care You're actually swerving into my follow-up question... I'll post the follow-up thread question in a few more days; I want to wait to see if any more of the experienced MAs around here have good advice.

Great posts so far from all...

[bushido_man96]

I've seen my share of "going through the motions." I think the main issue is that we all view the Martial Arts as a life-long pursuit, but most kids don't. Their attention spans tend to fold after a few steady years, and they just end up in that holding pattern. How to fix it, I'm not sure.

[sensei8]

I've seen my share of "going through the motions." I think the main issue is that we all view the Martial Arts as a life-long pursuit, but most kids don't. Their attention spans tend to fold after a few steady years, and they just end up in that holding pattern. How to fix it, I'm not sure.

They'll have to want to do the MA. At 7 years old, I wanted to do the MA, and I knew that I wanted to do the MA for the rest of my life; and I have done the MA my entire life!! No one can make someone want to do the MA, they have to have that already in them.

[Rateh]

IMHO its our jobs as instructors to motivate our students.

[sensei8]

IMHO its our jobs as instructors to motivate our students.

24/7...365...always!!