The Specialization Conundrum

[Drew]

Recently, I've been thinking about specialization, especially among trainers, in the context of MMA or any no/few rules confrontation. People often specialize in one area of MA, especially when they are done competing, and their goal becomes get as good as possible at an individual aspect. However, the problem that keeps cropping up is these people lose sight of the big picture, and the techniques they start teaching tend to be a bit short sighted, and cause problems in the ring.

For example, purely jiu-jitsu minded people tend to start rolling from their knees when literally any other arbitrary position (side control, mount, whatever) would be better. Boxers like to train boxing without knees or elbows, the threat of kicks, so on and so forth. While I realize that training individual elements is necessary, I would argue that ignoring the ranges of combat directly adjacent to the one being trained is very detrimental, i.e not rolling when practicing striking is fine but ignoring takedowns and clinch entries is not.

This problem is not even addressable if you happen to go to multiple gyms (a boxing gym, a jiu-jitsu gym) to fill in holes. But even in exclusively MMA gyms with multiple trainers this seems to be a problem.

Thoughts on this?

[ShoriKid]

Drew,

I think you may be missing the forest for the trees on this one. Yes, when training for combat sports, like MMA, that call on a wide range of skills, training specific elements does tend to help. If you throw a new student in with someone who is already skilled in all ranges/areas of the sport and then try to teach them all of that, while showing everything that attaches and relates to it the training time is so diluted that there will be little progress.

Most MMA gyms now have an "MMA" practice as well that goes through all of the ranges, or days that fighters will work say, striking to the take down. Grappling from clinch down to the ground, perhaps with strikes from the ground. Or clinch work to the take down with strikes involved. They will start along the fence and have to work out off of it, pinned against it on the ground and have to escape to their feet. All while facing the full range of offense. A new competitor will need to learn all of the foundational skills to be able to work up to these drills. If not, say starting from the clinch, you have to teach the body control, the take downs, striking, counters to the trips, throws, take downs and how to counter the strikes. How to control position on their feet and turn off their feet, how to make that turn open up or close down offense. That's just one aspect the student has to learn. Try teaching all of that to a guy with no wrestling and MT base. Try teaching offensive and defensive foot work, opening and closing range, power generation, defense and cage/ring control to a guy without a boxing base. You've just made the coaches job a lot harder, frustrated a fighter and made their progress much slower. It's about acquiring skills that you can use to compete with quickly, efficiently and reliably.

From the coach's side of things, it is very hard to teach something so comprehensive with a structure that makes it possible to track the progress of the fighter. Along with that it is very hard to find the high level of skill in so many combat sports. Would you rather see a single coach who is of a fair level of skill in 3 or 4 areas training fighters, or 3 or 4 highly skilled coaches training fighters in different areas of the sport? I think the evolution of MMA over the past 10-15 years shows the approach of coaches for each aspect, with a segregated skill training, has yielded better results than a single coach doing all of the training. Keeping in mind that there is almost always a "head coach" in a gym who over sees all of the training.

[Drew]

Shori, I think we misunderstand one another. I absolutely prefer to have coaches that are specialized in each phase of competition. What I was kind of complaining about is that many coaches seem to use their own phase's corresponding medium of competition (Muay Thai, BJJ, boxing, what have you) to train students rather than a more MMA specific setup. For example, I mentioned starting from the knees in rolling, or butt-scooting. In the context of BJJ competition, that's great. But I have never been in those positions, nor do I believe I ever will be, in the ring. It would save so much time to start from any already grounded position.

Or just practicing wrestling, hand fighting is dern near impossible when a dude is throwing punches at your face. Another example is practicing stand up with Muay Thai rules. I want you to occasionally set up a take down or throw when we are sparring, just to keep me honest, you know? I'm not training for a Muay Thai match.

Looking back at my previous post, I don't think I was entirely clear about exactly what was frustrating me, sorry about that. I think I have rectified it with this post.

[bushido_man96]

Specialization has been going on in the Martial Arts for many years. I do see the value of what you are seeing, though. If I am reading you right, you are talking about grappling from stand-up, and working in the takedown, and not circumventing it for the sake of rolling, correct? However, I think it would depend on what the focus of the session is. If you are wanting to work a session on collar chokes, spending 10 to 15 minutes trying to work a takedown is going to kill your training time.

[JusticeZero]

The other thing is that much of what we have today is thanks to specialists. Specialists push the envelope in their field, and then go back and teach the generalists eye opening and nifty new things.

[MasterPain]

Recently, I've been thinking about specialization, especially among trainers, in the context of MMA or any no/few rules confrontation. People often specialize in one area of MA, especially when they are done competing, and their goal becomes get as good as possible at an individual aspect. However, the problem that keeps cropping up is these people lose sight of the big picture, and the techniques they start teaching tend to be a bit short sighted, and cause problems in the ring.

For example, purely jiu-jitsu minded people tend to start rolling from their knees when literally any other arbitrary position (side control, mount, whatever) would be better. Boxers like to train boxing without knees or elbows, the threat of kicks, so on and so forth. While I realize that training individual elements is necessary, I would argue that ignoring the ranges of combat directly adjacent to the one being trained is very detrimental, i.e not rolling when practicing striking is fine but ignoring takedowns and clinch entries is not.

This problem is not even addressable if you happen to go to multiple gyms (a boxing gym, a jiu-jitsu gym) to fill in holes. But even in exclusively MMA gyms with multiple trainers this seems to be a problem.

Thoughts on this?

I think controlling range and transitioning between them is a specialization of it's own. And I do think the concept often does not get enough attention.

[ShoriKid]

Shori, I think we misunderstand one another. I absolutely prefer to have coaches that are specialized in each phase of competition. What I was kind of complaining about is that many coaches seem to use their own phase's corresponding medium of competition (Muay Thai, BJJ, boxing, what have you) to train students rather than a more MMA specific setup. For example, I mentioned starting from the knees in rolling, or butt-scooting. In the context of BJJ competition, that's great. But I have never been in those positions, nor do I believe I ever will be, in the ring. It would save so much time to start from any already grounded position.

Or just practicing wrestling, hand fighting is dern near impossible when a dude is throwing punches at your face. Another example is practicing stand up with Muay Thai rules. I want you to occasionally set up a take down or throw when we are sparring, just to keep me honest, you know? I'm not training for a Muay Thai match.

Looking back at my previous post, I don't think I was entirely clear about exactly what was frustrating me, sorry about that. I think I have rectified it with this post.

I see what you're looking for Drew. I do. You are looking for the integration of skills so that they more fully mirror an MMA competition format. However, I think you may be missing the forest for the trees here. Coaches train the skills they are imparting in isolation. Doing it in the competitive format that they are familiar with allows them to start with a frame work that makes the skill easier to transmit. How do you teach hand fighting, which in the context of controlling an opponent, is important, when everyone keeps getting punched in the face? If you are so worried about outside attacks that you cannot concentrate on the skills you are most needing, it slows the learning. It's back to the most effective way to build a skill set. Integrating the skill set is a whole different matter. It's one that doesn't get enough time. But, if you have a weak foundation to build off of, the full skill set will be shaky. If you want to talk about how to better fit and flow the base skills of an MMA fighter together, which it seems like what you are really getting at, cool. I am totally on board. We teach a handful of wrestling skills, BJJ and karate together, with some associated sport influences. Getting it all to fit into a holistic unit that you can make sense of is a pain. Getting guys to see the times to transition between ranges/skill sets is tough.

[ps1]

I think I follow what you're saying, Drew! In my area there is a highly successful fighter that competed at some very high levels. His base and preferred art is muay thai. Now that he has opened his own school, he runs it as a muay thai gym. That's fine for Muay Thai competition, but his guys don't do well in pro mma competition because they only have 1 hour per week of grappling training.

Am I following your question correctly?

If so...I agree.

There's nothing wrong with preferring one phase of combat over another. But if you only teach that to your athletes, they aren't likely to do well.

[lowereastside]

My 3 cents - find a style that you like - a good teacher - and then stay with it. In the beginning try to get 1 style down real well. Then go out and explore - I was lucky - I have a very good friend who does Chinese Wrestling - I traded my Mantis concepts for his Wrestling. I met a fellow who taught Kali - we exchanged his kali for my Mantis - we are now good friends also. The important thing is to find a good teacher who is willing to give it - and the student must be able to catch what the teacher is giving out.

[sensei8]

Each of us specialize in the MA, one way or another. I believe that the true condurum is in finding that which is within the MAist to discover their mettle. The search is not in vain, no, it's complete in its totality.