Kicked out of the dojo!!!

[conrad665]

Hi,

I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post this thread, but I need mainly the instructors' opinions about my case.

Sorry for the long explanation. I kindly wish you to share what you think with me:

Last year, I was sparring with a 3rd dan senpai, one of our instructors. He is really a tough guy and doesn't play 'nice'. He performed an ashi barai and I fell down in pain. After an x-ray, it was revealed that I had a fracture and had to wear a cast for one month.

Those were the most desperate days of my life. The crutches gave my hands and arms severe pain, so that I couldn't open my fingers when I woke up every morning, and I had to go to school with my cast. And there was snow up to my knees :/ I've lost about 8 kilograms (about 16 pounds) at that period, mainly muscle. And after the cast was taken out, I had to deal with the terrible fungus that grew on my foot. Gross!!

I'm telling these to explain the reason of my reaction against that senpai, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to make you feel pity for me.

Anyways, after three months, I healed enough to start karate. I couldn't do intense training for a while, but then everything got back to normal until February. We happened to be sparring again, and I was more cautious this time. Once I tried to kick him, he made me fall down again. Therefore, I decided to stay in guard position and not to attack till our turn ended. He got angry with me and told me to spar, but I didn't. Then he said: ''If you won't study, then don't come.'' I was so shocked to hear this that I cried all night and decided to give up the dojo till he graduated and went abroad. I didn't tell sensei about what he said, because I thought it was trivial and everything would be normal after the senpai went abroad. And I would have had to face that guy again, who broke my foot and kicked me out if I had done so. And I knew that sensei would be by his side, so I let go of everything and left for 3 months.

I started karate again last week, and sensei called me immediately. He told me that I was disrespectful to a senpai and that meant I was disrespectful to sensei himself, I gave rude answers to the senpai (although I did NOT. I would never do that); I should have told the sensei the issue first before giving up the dojo; and I couldn't step in the dojo unless I solved this situation, that is, speak to the senpai about this issue; they have been studying together for 20 years and the sensei trusted what he said, etc. I told him that I didn't do wrong, I didn't want to speak to that man ever again, and thanked him for his teaching me for years. Then I went out crying (Yep, I cry too much).

I can understand how he thinks. He thinks I defied the authority of instructors and acted rude, which is the last thing to do in a karate dojo. But that wasn't my intention and has never been. I had been studying there for more than four years, I always respected my instructors and I know how to behave in a dojo. I was just... afraid of the senpai and I wanted to protect myself. I think there's nothing wrong with this. I just didn't want to get a fracture or a worse injury. And I know, injuries happen. But in my dojo, no one ever broke a bone before. Why would I have to endure all that pain and discomfort again? I couldn't take the risk. Isn't it normal to be afraid of hitting someone that hurt you badly before?

In my opinion, my 'old' sensei should have tried to understand the trauma I suffered.

How would you react in such a situation? Would you expel the student? Do you think I should have acted differently?

Maybe it is useless to discuss further, but I'm still in shock and trying to digest what happened. I'm trying to understand in what way I did wrong.

Thanks for your opinions in advance and thanks a lot for reading

[bassaiguy]

If you're not happy in the dojo or you don't feel safe you should leave and find another place to train. However, you said that in four years yours was the only broken bone you ever saw in your dojo and that your reaction to the sensei and sempai was due to your fear and not some overt act by the instructors. Think about it, you had one (fairly minor) injury and you are afraid to participate in training, when confronted about the incident you didn't get the reaction you wanted so you left in a huff. I'm not sure I'd welcome you back with open arms either.

I don't believe in bullying on the dojo and I won't have anyone intimidate a fellow student, but karate is a contact sport and Shotokan is a hard style of karate. I've broken fingers, toes, ribs and dislocated my jaw in training - it's just the name of the game. Look at other contact sport athletes like rugby or football players, wrestlers, judoka, even gymnasts, etc. No one is able to train for years and years without sustaining an injury.

I would say that after four years you're not where you should be, so change dojos, but from the description you gave I'm not totally sympathetic either.

[shotokan_bulldog]

Communication is key, both parties need to work on that. The moment that you started feeling uncomfortable at your school you should have talked to the instructor. Even after you got injured you should have spoken to your sensei. I think that if you really want to continue in your training at that school you should try to do something respectful towards him. When my instructor was training he got kicked out of his school for whatever reason and he came back to every class for 4 months kneeling in front of his sensei's office door asking to be allowed back into class. He would sit there for the whole class. Just a thought. I guess it depends on how bad you want to go to that school.

[bushido_man96]

It sounds like too much of the old fashioned approach. If the instructor isn't willing to listen to you, then he doesn't value you as a student enough for you to stay.

It sounds to me like the two were a bit stubborn, and if you can't come forward and be comfortable enough to talk to you instructor, then that isn't any place to be.

I say move on, and find another good school to train at.

[sensei8]

Not every black belt can teach!! There's tons of more involved in just knowing the techniques and the like, for example, being able to interact with their students in a professional manner.

The BB doesn't give the instructor any right beyond the cause.

[kensei]

no one is with out issue here. You should have spoken to the instructor before leaving and your instructor should have been more sympathetic to the situation...but then again how could he.

You could leave and go join another club, or you could "man up" and tell your instructor what had gone on. Its natural to be a tad gun shy when getting back to Kumite, but you have to remember that your injury was probably a accident, if the senior was that out of it that he hurt people all the time then you need to tell your instructor.

Personally, I would say call the instructor up, write him a note or open some kind of a dialog so that he knows what and why.

[mal103]

In my opinion, my 'old' sensei should have tried to understand the trauma I suffered.

How would you react in such a situation? Would you expel the student? Do you think I should have acted differently?

Maybe it is useless to discuss further, but I'm still in shock and trying to digest what happened. I'm trying to understand in what way I did wrong.

Thanks for your opinions in advance and thanks a lot for reading

Difficult to offer advice on this and we've only heard your side...

All I can say is how I would have handled it and how I think my Sensei would also deal with it.

Any accident or injury should be fully investigated so someone would have spoken with you about it. You should have also spoken to someone about your unhappy situation, ideally a medium sized club should include a few instructors and also other "staff" who should be approachable.

Of course as Sensei8 points out that a BB can't always be a good teacher and a good BB teacher isn't always good at running a club/org!

If someone spoke to me about their fear of sparring with someone then I would do my best not to pair them up, being good at sparring also includes restraint so skillful Karateka should be able to "teach someone a lesson" without breaking anything...

If someone spoke to me about a problem then I would ensure we tried to resolve it as best as possible WITHOUT the student feeling they needed to stop training.

If we thought that someone lacked in an area then we would try our best to bring them on or restrict their next grade, not kick them on their back-sides.

I would request a meeting with your Sensei, save time by putting it all on paper maybe. Let them know how you feel, maybe request someone else sits in.

Of course if you are still not happy with how they deal with it then look elsewhere!

[yamesu]

Not every black belt can teach!! There's tons of more involved in just knowing the techniques and the like, for example, being able to interact with their students in a professional manner.

The BB doesn't give the instructor any right beyond the cause.

^^ Totally agree.

If it were me, I would have raised the issue with the head instructor in a nice manner, simply explaining my point of view (not at all being rude).

If I was still met with bad attitude, I would move onto a different dojo.

[conrad665]

Hi

Thank you all for your replies

After this incident, I've found another dojo and have been training there since then. I do not have any intention to go back to my previous dojo. After all, I was kicked out not once but twice... I should point out that I'm not a proud, arrogant and conceited person. If the whole thing had happened because of something that I thought I did wrong, I wouldn't hesitate a moment to go back and beg for their forgiveness on my knees. Really, I really loved my instructors, my dojo and everything...

You told me to speak to the sensei again. The last time we spoke, I told him the whole thing from my point of view, why I kept my guard, why I didn't come to training for 3 months, that I wouldn't treat an instructor or anybody rudely, like I told here. But he didn't listen to me. He didn't take my words seriously. He talked and talked and talked, told me I was disrespectful and rude, if I weren't a diligent karateka that never missed training sessions, he wouldn't speak to me ever again. He didn't try to understand why a 'diligent karateka' as he said, chose to stay away from karate for that long. He simply ignored what I told him. That is why I chose to give up my dojo.

Yes, I should have spoken to the sensei before all these things happened. I just didn't want to make a fuss over this issue and that guy wasn't around much, so I didn't. And I know his breaking my bone was an accident. But as I said, he is always tough without a reason, in that session he was even aggressive and I didn't want the same thing to happen.

I will continue doing karate, which is all I want, so I think I will overcome what happened in time. Unfortunately, I will have to see these guys, another instructor from the dojo is getting married soon and all of us will be invited. I will probably ignore them. Since they both expelled me, they don't want me as their student and so they are not my instructors anymore.

Thanks again for your ideas They helped me a lot to think over and decide what to do. I had even thought to give up karate. But I decided to stick to it

[JusticeZero]

If you are at a wedding, you need not deal with anyone there as anything beyond fellow celebrants of the wedding. Be polite and pleasant when asked any questions and do not ask any of your own. I doubt they will press the issue.