Am I a total jerk?

[DSKarate]

Hey man I practice Goju-ryu style in ken shin kan, I am young and I am an orange belt , I totally understand your situation and it's OK so don't worry man.

[bushido_man96]

Harkon,

your right of course. But again this is a system hes been practicing for 25 years. I am sure that many of you blackbelts senseis dont have 25 years ma experience let alone in one system!

Its not the "a wise man can learn something from anyone" thing. Its disrespectful. This is not about humility, its about not respecting his hard work.

I have been in the dojo several times where a sensei (who very well may be a lower rank) in a different or same system visits, my old sensei would bow to him and call him sensei xxxxxx, and introduce him to the class.

Like I said, my sensei respects my prior training and I was no blackbelt.

Bahrain wasnt asking to take the class over, wasnt trying to show up their sensei, he was simply visiting.

A great karate student will always have the Beginner Mind; when I am taught oi zuki or age uke from a new Sensei I can have a feel for their karatedo on the basic level and as a window to their most advanced techniques. Kihon Kata for example is always a Kata to return to. It is the first Kata to be taught and the last to be mastered. Karate is a never ending cycle, when your black belt turns white with age, when all the blood sweat and tears are washed out; the color means nothing; the Budo is in your soul, the belt is an honorable accessory, nothing more.

It sounds like your sensei is a pretty good man. I am not necessarily condoning the behavior of the dojo he is visiting. It sounds to me that the guy has a bit of an ego problem. But, in the long run of things, if going and learning is the goal, then the belt worn shouldn't prove to be an issue. Was the other sensei disrespectful? It sounds that way. Maybe that is his rule for everyone that comes in. Who knows? And everyone will make their own decision based on the situation at hand.

After all, he did ask for opinions, and he got them. You've made yours, and others have made theirs. The discussion wouldn't be as rich if we all agreed.

[Harkon72]

My present Sensei has 30 years experience in Shukokai and Shito Ryu, he's going for his 5th Dan this year. His Sensei has 40 years in Shito Ryu, Shukokai, Okinawan Kobudo and Ju Jitsu. My point is that the Master of our Style here in the UK, if he went to a different school of Martial Arts; Tae Kwon Do for example, he would wear the white belt of a beginner.

[Brooklyn Kenshikai]

My present Sensei has 30 years experience in Shukokai and Shito Ryu, he's going for his 5th Dan this year. His Sensei has 40 years in Shito Ryu, Shukokai, Okinawan Kobudo and Ju Jitsu. My point is that the Master of our Style here in the UK, if he went to a different school of Martial Arts; Tae Kwon Do for example, he would wear the white belt of a beginner.

Wearing a white belt is not a mark of dishonor or punishment. To me, and to most experienced karateka, it represents sho shin --beginner's mind -- which every karateka should maintain, no matter what their rank.

Think about it — You're just in town, temporarily, visiting a school that YOU contacted, and you don't know them and they don't know you, and you asked to work out in THEIR dojo, and they're being generous and gracious, in saying yes, you can work out with us.

Same style or not, you were not promoted by them -- wear a white belt. If you're a 5th dan, let what you do in class make that clear to all -- why would displaying, to total strangers, your rank, with a piece of cloth, matter so much to you? If you had no belt to wear (you lost it, for example) would you not take the class, even if they said it's fine to not wear one? Would that deter you? if so, ego is the answer.

Rank is only relevant/relative within a dojo, usually, and maybe sometimes in its associated/branch dojos.

If I never wore a belt for the rest of my days, I would still enjoy training as much as ever. Would you? I hope so! Osu!

[Brooklyn Kenshikai]

It's not the belt- I agree with you, but to me it's more about aligning him in the dojo with the lowest rank, imagine your sensei wanting to get a work out in on vacation and they have him stand in the back of the rank with a whitebelt on. It would only be one step before they have him doing pushups because he crossed in front of sensei or something. Itsunnecessary, it's disrespectful.

There's no need for martial artists to treat each other that way. At most he should have told him "no coaching, no teaching, no correcting".

I have only had 2 real sensei's, I believe neither would have acted that way, especially regarding someone inthe same system.

Heck my teacher respects my prior training and treats me as a martial artist and I was no blackbelt and my training was in a different system.

My Dai-Soke would've done whatever was required of him because he would've been there for one thing and one thing only...train!!

Sensei8 — Bingo! ——— Exactly — you're there to train, not to be concerned with pecking order! It's not a place where you plan to stay — you're just visiting — why not conform to the protocol of the dojo YOU ASKED to train at while you're in town? Best to leave one's ego and "rank" at the door and join the class and focus on the training, not the color of cloth strip around one's waist!

[sensei8]

Imho...

White belt is the most important belt a MAist can ever hope or desire to attain; without it [white belt], rank is nothing more than an illusion, at best!!

Strap it on and rock n' roll!!

[Brooklyn Kenshikai]

Imho...

White belt is the most important belt a MAist can ever hope or desire to attain; without it [white belt], rank is nothing more than an illusion, at best!!

Strap it on and rock n' roll!!

Agree 100%!

The belt only matters to those who are worried that without it, in an unfamiliar dojo/setting, no one will be able to tell how accomplished and experienced they are. Those who say otherwise are kidding themselves. Otherwise, why get all bent out of shape over wearing the white belt, in a place where no one knows you?

The belt doesn't matter on the street, it shouldn't matter in an unfamiliar setting outside the domain of your style/dojo where you are training fairly anonymously. Again, the real proof of "rank" is in your performance, not the cloth that keeps your gi top in place!

[sensei8]

Anonymity can be a good thing, and when visiting other schools of the MA, wearing a white belt provides that, but only for the brief moment before said instructor acknowledges you.

Even then, white belt on!!

[Chunmonchek]

My present Sensei has 30 years experience in Shukokai and Shito Ryu, he's going for his 5th Dan this year. His Sensei has 40 years in Shito Ryu, Shukokai, Okinawan Kobudo and Ju Jitsu. My point is that the Master of our Style here in the UK, if he went to a different school of Martial Arts; Tae Kwon Do for example, he would wear the white belt of a beginner.

Wearing a white belt is not a mark of dishonor or punishment. To me, and to most experienced karateka, it represents sho shin --beginner's mind -- which every karateka should maintain, no matter what their rank.

Think about it — You're just in town, temporarily, visiting a school that YOU contacted, and you don't know them and they don't know you, and you asked to work out in THEIR dojo, and they're being generous and gracious, in saying yes, you can work out with us.

Same style or not, you were not promoted by them -- wear a white belt. If you're a 5th dan, let what you do in class make that clear to all -- why would displaying, to total strangers, your rank, with a piece of cloth, matter so much to you? If you had no belt to wear (you lost it, for example) would you not take the class, even if they said it's fine to not wear one? Would that deter you? if so, ego is the answer.

Rank is only relevant/relative within a dojo, usually, and maybe sometimes in its associated/branch dojos.

If I never wore a belt for the rest of my days, I would still enjoy training as much as ever. Would you? I hope so! Osu!

I'm with Brooklyn. I've more than 40 years in, and still would not hesitate to put on a white belt to train.

Bottom line is "My house, my rules; Your house, your rules". I've trained in a bunch of different arts, have trained in Okinawa, and was prepared to wear whatever.

In my dojo, I will let any visiting yudansha wear their rank. Training on my floor with my org's patch on your dogi is another story.

Frankly, I've never cared much where I stood in line, as long as I had a place in the line.

All the best,

Chris

p.s. @Brooklyn-Good to see another Goju practitioner! Perhaps we know some of the same people?

[Harkon72]

Last night, my Sensei, our Sempai and myself visited our sister club in another town. We lined up in the correct place in the line, I was with the 4th Kyu's, Becky was with the 1st Kyu's and we wore our belts. Our Sensei, who is grading for 5th Dan in a couple of months joined the Dan grades but wore a plain black belt as a sign of respect because the Sensei that night was of a lower grade than him. The training was hard; the Kihon was called and then done in reverse stance. The Kata was taught by both Sensei, before my Sensei retired to the back of the class to practice his Kata as the rest of us did a strength sapping round robin drill. The Sensei wore body armor at the end and we threw our best reverse punches at him. The face off between the two Sensei was scintillating; each rib crunching punch was greeted with a cheer. A Great night out for the Dragon Martial Arts Family.