2020 Olympics - no karate... but maybe wrestling

[ShoriKid]

I don't think that the IOC controls what's shown on the TV. I believe that the network decides what they'll televise, but I'm also sure that the IOC might have some saying because the Olympics i s a big ticket thing for both.

They don't control what gets shown at all. The Olympic Broadcasting Service films it all and it's up to the networks to pick what they want to broadcast and then to put their commentary and graphics on top. During London the BBC were pretty amazing and we had access to every single sport... could watch whatever you wanted.

I suppose this might be a bit controversial on here... but why is wrestling being in the olympics such a big deal? I know that it was part of the Ancient Greek Olympics but so was chariot racing and running in full or partial armour (the hoplitodromos).

It's one of the most "democratic" in that it doesn't require a lot of money to participate and almost all cultures have a traditional form of wrestling. Combine that with the number of countries have strong wrestling traditions and a long history of competition and you have a strong Olympic tradition. There is part of me that wonders why so many things are included in the Olympic games that have never been true competitive sports. Synch. swimming, diving, table tennis etc. My question, why not?

And I'm all for bringing back Hoplitrodromos. Either in classical divisions with greaves, breast plate and helmet, or modern with full level III military grade vest, helmet and combat boots. But, I'm weird like that. Do we still get the triatholon? Ride, shoot, fight?

[bushido_man96]

I don't think that the IOC controls what's shown on the TV. I believe that the network decides what they'll televise, but I'm also sure that the IOC might have some saying because the Olympics i s a big ticket thing for both.

They don't control what gets shown at all. The Olympic Broadcasting Service films it all and it's up to the networks to pick what they want to broadcast and then to put their commentary and graphics on top. During London the BBC were pretty amazing and we had access to every single sport... could watch whatever you wanted.

I suppose this might be a bit controversial on here... but why is wrestling being in the olympics such a big deal? I know that it was part of the Ancient Greek Olympics but so was chariot racing and running in full or partial armour (the hoplitodromos).

It's one of the most "democratic" in that it doesn't require a lot of money to participate and almost all cultures have a traditional form of wrestling. Combine that with the number of countries have strong wrestling traditions and a long history of competition and you have a strong Olympic tradition. There is part of me that wonders why so many things are included in the Olympic games that have never been true competitive sports. Synch. swimming, diving, table tennis etc. My question, why not?

And I'm all for bringing back Hoplitrodromos. Either in classical divisions with greaves, breast plate and helmet, or modern with full level III military grade vest, helmet and combat boots. But, I'm weird like that. Do we still get the triatholon? Ride, shoot, fight?

I tend to agree with ShoriKid here. I think that Wrestling entails everything that an Olympic sport should be. Athlete vs athlete, who are very skilled, strong, fast, well-conditioned, and talented at what they do, and the sport is decided by the athletes, and not by a judging committee that interprets artistic design.

If the things like the Spartan races continue to gain popularity, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up making it to the Olympic games eventually.

[brickshooter]

I hope that Wrestling never gets cut. Other than tradition, it's one of the few sports where any country from any parts of the world, regardless of climate/wealth can participate in.

It's one of the purest sport of all, requiring almost no equipment. And due to weight classes, size is no importance leaving athleticism and strategy to win.

[maisweh]

because ribbon twirling, speed walking, horse dancing and things like that shouldnt be.

[DWx]

It's one of the most "democratic" in that it doesn't require a lot of money to participate and almost all cultures have a traditional form of wrestling. Combine that with the number of countries have strong wrestling traditions and a long history of competition and you have a strong Olympic tradition. There is part of me that wonders why so many things are included in the Olympic games that have never been true competitive sports. Synch. swimming, diving, table tennis etc. My question, why not?

And I'm all for bringing back Hoplitrodromos. Either in classical divisions with greaves, breast plate and helmet, or modern with full level III military grade vest, helmet and combat boots. But, I'm weird like that. Do we still get the triatholon? Ride, shoot, fight?

I tend to agree with ShoriKid here. I think that Wrestling entails everything that an Olympic sport should be. Athlete vs athlete, who are very skilled, strong, fast, well-conditioned, and talented at what they do, and the sport is decided by the athletes, and not by a judging committee that interprets artistic design.

If the things like the Spartan races continue to gain popularity, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up making it to the Olympic games eventually.

OK that is a good point and I don't disagree. It does seem to embody the Olympic values.

But with respect to your last comment Brian:

"Athlete vs athlete, who are very skilled, strong, fast, well-conditioned, and talented at what they do, and the sport is decided by the athletes, and not by a judging committee that interprets artistic design."

What would your thoughts be on gymnastics? That too could be considered a cornerstone of both the modern and ancient Olympics and does require athletes who are skilled, strong, fast and well-conditioned yet it is largely judged on how artistic the performer is.

[Patrick]

How come the Olympics have so many weird sports (water polo? ping pong? badminton? Like, 4 different kinds of cycling competitions?) but karate is always denied Olympic status?

One thing that comes to mind, for me when I read this thread, is that we are discussing this on a martial arts community where you are preaching to the choir in large part, regarding the Olympics and martial arts.

What is said in this thread likely does not represent the way the majority of people who watch the Olympics think. Many, many people would consider tennis, ping pong, badminton, cycling, volleyball, water polo, soccer/football, basketball, hockey, etc. to be sports, more so than karate. Weird is an interesting word. Sometimes I find that people often use it for things they don't personally like, have experience with, care about or are simply different from what they know.

There are a lot of "sports" in the world and everyone wants to see their "sport" represented, but that isn't how it'll end up working out. It's easy to dismiss it as politics, it's harder to accept that there is more out there. Just a thought.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Harkon72]

This one is a weird one for me as I have never considered Karate to be a sport. It's a Martial Art, "Martial" being the buzz word. It's designed for more than scoring points. But there you go, I'm just a dusty old traditionalist who should know better.

[sensei8]

I suppose that what a lot of MAists don't like is when some organization(s), like the IOC, take the purity of the MA, turn it inside and outside to fit it into their brand(s). But if the IOC wants to take Karate and turn it into something I don't like, well, then I don't have to watch it, and in that, the IOC governs the Olympics whether I like it or not. But, for the most, I'll watch any MA in the Olympics, not to see how I can complain, but for the beauty that IS the MA and to learn and to have those "WOW" and "AWESOME" and "Oh, that is/not good"!

I don't own the MA, I'm just a student of the MA.

[RW]

How come the Olympics have so many weird sports (water polo? ping pong? badminton? Like, 4 different kinds of cycling competitions?) but karate is always denied Olympic status?

One thing that comes to mind, for me when I read this thread, is that we are discussing this on a martial arts community where you are preaching to the choir in large part, regarding the Olympics and martial arts.

What is said in this thread likely does not represent the way the majority of people who watch the Olympics think. Many, many people would consider tennis, ping pong, badminton, cycling, volleyball, water polo, soccer/football, basketball, hockey, etc. to be sports, more so than karate. Weird is an interesting word. Sometimes I find that people often use it for things they don't personally like, have experience with, care about or are simply different from what they know.

There are a lot of "sports" in the world and everyone wants to see their "sport" represented, but that isn't how it'll end up working out. It's easy to dismiss it as politics, it's harder to accept that there is more out there. Just a thought.

Thanks,

Patrick

I agree with you.

I still have to meet one person that thinks to him/herself "I can't wait for water polo to begin!!! This season is going to be so exciting!" or "I will totally get the next badminton match guys, I will pay for the PPV so please come to my home and we'll watch the game together".

Are they more of a sport than karate? Perhaps, karate is a martial art. But one can't say they're that popular or widespread... so why are they Olympic again?

[bushido_man96]

But with respect to your last comment Brian:

"Athlete vs athlete, who are very skilled, strong, fast, well-conditioned, and talented at what they do, and the sport is decided by the athletes, and not by a judging committee that interprets artistic design."

What would your thoughts be on gymnastics? That too could be considered a cornerstone of both the modern and ancient Olympics and does require athletes who are skilled, strong, fast and well-conditioned yet it is largely judged on how artistic the performer is.

I think that the implementation of judges on artistic performance just tends to allow politics into the scoring, but that's really just my opinion. Kind of the difference between sparring and judging a forms competition in MA tourneys. No doubt all of us can think of a time when we thought our technical performance was at or near to being a winning performance, but for some reason a judge picked someone else's performance. Its just part of the game, and everyone likely gets bit by it at least once. But, barring a bad call in sparring, its usually decided by the two athletes on the floor, and not the judges.

Its just a personal preference of mine, really, to try to keep judging out of it as much as possible.