Goju Organizations - One better then the other?

[cheesefrysamurai]

It is sad. I was definitely under the impression that it was about ego. I was under the impression that they left by choice.

when my teacher was in Okinawa he trained with Taira Sensei at the Jundokan. He knows people who jumped ship and left the Jundokan to join his group.

Don't try to understand the internal politics of Goju Ryu, it will 'do your head in'. I wrote the following elsewhere last year.

Interesting , I study Goju Ryu Karate-Do and it's most famous Dojo is the Jundokan. Strangely, it is not run by the most famous personality within Goju Ryu , this is Morio Higaonna (10th Dan). Sensei Higaonna is the most famous instructor, with the largest world wide Goju Ryu organisation the I.O.G.K.F. He was a pupil of the Jundokan, but was chased out in the 1970's. Teruo Chinen, the Sensei of my own teacher, Tony Christian, was also chased out in the early 1990's. So he founded Jundokan International in America as a result. Now Masaji Taira , one the most active instructors at the Jundokan and a man credited with being the best Bunkai man in Goju Ryu has also been chased out, why ?

Now I have nothing to do with the politics of the martial arts, in fact I avoid it like the plague. But , it seems to me that chasing the best guy out of your Dojo is a little odd. It's also be counter-productive to the promotion and development of the Jundokan , and they've done it three times now ! Please tell me it's not just petty jealousy that's behind it all ? I'm independent , not involved with any of these organisations , so I've no axe to grind or personality to promote, I just find it strangely sad.

My view on for this, is that Goju focuses on creating strong characters with a lot of self-belief who are prepared to go there own way, and do so on a regular basis.

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

People of all styles, not only Goju Ryu, branch off into different Dojos, then sub styles, then their own organizations (in no particular sequence and to various extents). This seems to be very much the norm and always has been, as far as I can hear and read, in China, Okinawa, Japan, and the rest of the world, too.

I guess it's a normal step for growing up in a martial art, like growing up in real life: it would be odd (under normal circumstances) to stay with ones parents and never, ever start to have an independent life, start a new family etc... So to me it is normal that when someone becomes mature enough in their style that they include their own personality, priorities, and do their own thing to some extent. That should not mean that mutual respect is lost. Like in a family, there should be pride, trust, and respect shared mutually among teachers and "grown up" martial artists who go their own way.

And I guess like in any family there are black sheep and odd cousins and the inevitable family reunions with much joy and the occasional nuclear explosion (emotionally spoken).

I just wish there were more visits between dojos... and I mean mature martial artists visiting each other with an open mind and mutual respect to exchange their insights; instead of coming to a dojo for teaching or being taught and get all stubborn about silly little differences that are actually not so important in the big picture of their respective style(s).

Conclusion: Is one organization better than the other? Depends on the individual teacher (the one accessible to you, not the organization's head), how much they know, how much they teach (might be different from what they know), the interactions with other organizations, how they treat their students, and lastly, if they can let you grow up one day to be a mature martial artist yourself.

[Harlan]

Actually...that 'starting a new family' is a modern invention. Historically, people stayed very close, excepting for periods of economic/political instability. People stayed on the farm, extended families intermarried, and children farmed the same land, or contiguous plots.

It's easy to understand 'going off on one's own', 'striking out on a new path', etc. as it mirrors our modern social framework. But one thing that has been lost in modernization is the concept of 'clan'. In the concentric circles of social networks, 'clan ties' were very important in many societies, very closely associated with family identification, and breaking those ties was a serious thing to do.

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

Even though in past times the concept of clan was dominant (I live in a tribal society of the middle east and can relate to the influence the greater family can exert very well), it was common to get married and move into separate quarters (albeit maybe under the same roof). But anyway, the analogy goes only that far.

In actual Karate (especially in the Okinawan times) it was common to go and cross-train under a different master, often encourage by one's teacher. The old Okinawan Karate-Ka traveled over to China for learning, returned as new Expert and modified their curriculum happily, adding kata, changing them etc..

[cheesefrysamurai]

Bahrain, I appreciate what you are saying and I agree with you to some extent.

In todays martial arts, affiliation is important to some people. I know when I was hunting for a dojo, I researched my senseis affiliation and his teachers, they seemed very legitimate to me and I based part of my decision on it.

The martial arts isn't that big a world in a sense. I see it all the time here, someone speaks highly of their sensei, someone else asks who it is, and often others know of him or know of his lineage.

I know people grow, BUT there is a limited lineage, Higaonna Kanryo Sensei ---> Miyagi sensei. (simplified)

I think these governing bodies help keep the system strong, help with uniformity. I don't see this splintering as beneficial to the art