USe of the title "Master"

[KickChick]

So what about the title Shihan? I've read that this title is given to 5th dans, but I got the impression it is not synonmous with 5th dan. If that's true, who awards the title, and what is the proper usage?? I was researching a dojo in a town a little ways from here, and noticed that the teachers appear to refer to themselves as Shihan . Prior to that I thought it was like what hobbitbob referred to as "a one-way form of a address."

 

Sensei - literally means "one who has gone before" is the term used for all instructors or teachers in any art or discipline. It is a term that is not used in connection to rank and anyone in the position of "instructor" may be referred to as "Sensei". Normally though, it is a title used to denote black belts of instructor level grade.

 

Renshi - First of three instructor grades. ... minimum rank of 5th Degree Black Belt. Normally would include 5th and 6th Degree Black Belt ranks

 

Kyoshi - Second of three instructor grades..minimum rank of seventh Degree Black Belt or seven years after awarding of Renshi title.

 

Hanshi - Third of three instructor grades.

 

Shihan - Special Title indicating a "Head Instructor" or an "Instructor of Instructors". Minimum rank of Seventh Degree

 

A title is something that one earns, and in the arts the tradition of using the "title" is thousands of years old. I can see by some of the responses here that respect is not something that one gives up easily to another ... (we see this with black belts), but if you are affiliated with a certain martial art organization, you are required to be addressed by your martial arts title and to similarly address others by that certain title.We must be very careful when comparing titles and importance. Many individuals have a misunderstanding about the rank of different members in one system to another. In one system, it may take 6 years to acquire the Black-belt status, while in another only 18 months. Therefore, you should be concerned (if that's what you want) more with skill and active time, rather than only the rank. But, you must still respect the individuals for their accomplishments within their systems.

 

There is alot of confusion with the use of titles within the martial arts community. Each martial art and organization uses titles in a different manner, and usually a committee/union has establishes a policy for the use of titles within their organization to provide for their consistent use. The policy is consistent with the use within the traditional international martial arts community, but many of these unions and organizations/federations take it upon themselves to modify and include other titles where appropriate.... so this is where the confusion arises.

 

In the martial arts, we call a teacher Sah Bum Nihm/Sensei/Sir (whatever their titel may be), whether or not we are actually studying under that person, unless you want to be deliberately insulting. That title is attached to the teacher's name at all times ... not just in the dojo.

 

I hear this all the time here in the forum that the study of the martial arts is a way of life .... well ? .... the same respect that is shown in the dojo should be practiced in your everyday life outside the dojo..... shouldn't it? -- then don't be hypocritical ...if you are able to turn it on and off then that is your perogative.

 

As a final note, rank is only rank within the individual martial art styles and should not be compared between systems. Within different martial arts and also conventional business organizations, titles are used to show respect, whether or not they are used the same. Sometimes the controversy over rank and titles is built upon envy and jealousy. If the individuals finding fault were put in the same position, there would most likely be a 180 degree turnaround in their rationalization.

[Bitseach]

I personally think that any martial artist who calls themself Master should be severely pointed and laughed at. They are a fool, with an ego bigger than their dojo!

 

In the UK and Ireland "master" or "mistress" used to be a commonly held title for schoolteachers and at least in Ireland a teacher would be known as, say, Master O'Brien. In my Latin classes the Mistress would start each class with, "Salvete, puellae!" to which we would rise to our feet and respond, "Salve, magistra" but as I understand it, the origin of magister/magistra is from the root, "magus" which means "great". I was somewhat surprised that the etymology of Mister was magus/magist(er/ra) as I always thought it was constructed from "my sire", as with the French.

 

"Master" also used to be a younger form of "Mister" so the birthday card at the children's party would be addressed to "Master Charles Brown" if he was but a lad.

[KickChick]

I personally think that any martial artist who calls themself Master should be severely pointed and laughed at. They are a fool, with an ego bigger than their dojo!

 

In my Latin classes the Mistress would start each class with, "Salvete, puellae!" to which we would rise to our feet and respond, "Salve, magistra" but as I understand it, the origin of magister/magistra is from the root, "magus" which means "great"

 

.... and you never laughed at this?

 

My instructor/owner of school.... calls himself Master, because in our system of TKD and within our TKD union... he is recognized as such.

 

To just call yourself a "Master" with nothing to back it up ..., well, then

[Bitseach]

Not within her earshot! Respect for schoolteachers was very high when I was in school. This is why most people from that part of Ireland have a very good education and teachers are valued (rather than shot at!)

[sk0t]

I think that the title 'Master', although not used in America with proper reulatory standards, still should be used.

 

But only for Instructors...

 

A normal student who doesnt teach and makes it to 4th dan...automatically gets called Master..

 

BLAH!

[KickChick]

True, the term "Master" usually does only apply to an instructor .... (or least should)

 

.... and Bits, do you not believe that you should extend this same respect to your martial art "teacher"? ... are they not deserving of the same level of respect as a school teacher???

 

I would like to share a brief "story" regarding the mindset of non-martial artists when they come across the title "Master".

 

There is a TKD school within the vicinity of our school that opened up recently. It is a WTF-based TKD school run by "world-reknowned Korean Masters" .... this was the main "advertising catch" of theirs including the "House of Discipline" sign over the front door (which really caught the eye of parents! )

 

Well, needless to say, some of the parents of our students decided that maybe the quality of instruction was far more superior to that of the current instruction they were presently getting from an American 4th dan family owned and operated school .... and so we lost several students to this highly disciplined school whose instructors were Masters and world reknowned Korean international champions. (however, some have returned )

 

So being "Korean".... termed "master" and teaching "discipline" were the catch all phrases....this school must be far superior.

 

Many of the students did not realize that our Sah Bum Nihm was in fact a "Master" ... (he always went by "Sir" or Sah Bum Nihm")

 

We have joined a new TKD union and now he "officially" has the title "Master" ....

[JerryLove]

Which brings up another aspect. Typically, when a person opens up a martial art's studio; they do not wich the studio to close and themselves to become destitute because of a failure to attract students.

 

With the premise that attracting students is important comes the reality that the public does respond to such claims. This means, weather you would prefer to go by "master" or not, it may be in your best interest to do so.

[Red J]

I believe that I was a little sarcastic in my previous post, but I was trying to make a point about people overusing their titles. I have a professional title and I only use it in the proper setting. I think that it's sad when people use their titles outside of the proper settings in an effort to elevate their perceived status or to get preferential treatment from others. They are usually very transparent and insecure or they just don't know any better.

 

On a more positive note, I used to work at a golf course in college and met a few Asian guys who played on a regular basis. One was a Grandmaster of a local TKD school. When I met him he didn't introduce himself as GM ________. He was so down to earth, and after talking to him over a three month period he told me what he did for a living. Now, if I ever saw him in the MA setting I would certainly use his title out of respect. On the other hand, I also don't see him going to a doctor's office or a PTA meeting and introducing himself as GM ______.

 

Funny story, one day he won some money from these two guys on the last hole. When the group came in the two guys said something like we better pay him because he might know Karate. Well, I just cracked up and kept my mouth shut. They had no idea.

[justb]

Sensei is a very generic title for teacher.

 

If you ever hear anyone call themselves by their title (or for that matter, put it before their name), they are making a major faux pas. Titles go after the name in at least Japan/japanese styles, and you would ever hear anyone say their title when introducing themselves, on letterhead or business cards, etc...It would be considered pompous and probably quite a bit silly.

 

Calling or awarding the title of master is kind of funny. People study for years to get a "master's degree" in the US...That needs to come from a nationally accredited institution. In the Martial Arts, where we teach life and death situation control, one can simply show up for a number of years, break a few boards, bla bla and get the title of "Master", after paying several hundred, if not THOUSANDS of dollars for the privilage. Same guys who buy their college degrees "based on life experiences" through SPAM. Of course I'm simplifying but I think everyone gets the point.

 

Run the other way if they introduce themselves as master. Who cares what they call you, as long as you know what you know. Most people don't know that they don't know, hence the title confusion.

 

Thanks

 

B

[Bretty101]

Doesn't master mean fat old and past it?

 

I think the term master should suggest you have mastered all there is to your martial art. Everything! and more importantly yourself, ie not be over weight, why do so many masters (mainly karate ) fat stomachs?.

 

I can become a 4th dan over the next 3 years if i like and brand myself a master. But i don't think i'll ever master Taekwondo there is way to much to still learn and so much i want from it. I will never be worthy of this title and will never grade for my 4th dan.

 

On the other hand I have recieved a masters degree in Engineering and i wouldn't say i was anywhere near being a master of that!

 

Bretty MEng