USe of the title "Master"

[hobbitbob]

In my short time spent practicing the martial ways I have frequently come across teh title "master." IT has been used in different ways by different people. What exactly is a "master?"

 

In may Korean and eclectic styles, the title denotes anyone holding the rank of 4th dan or above.

 

In the mists of the past, a master was some wizened gentleman who had trained for his entire life, adn was dedicated to passing the art down to a chosen few students.

 

The concept of "mastery (Derived from the Latin Magister)" implies completion, or a sense of knowing "all that there is to know" about a certain subject. If this is the case, should someone with 10 or so years of training really be called a "master?"

 

Also, over the years, I've noticed a large number of people sporting belts or uniform patches witht eh title "master" or "Grandmaster." The first thing that comes to mind when I see these things is: "Is this person so insecure that they need the patches to remind themselves?" Would a true "master" not be very reluctant to display their own individual status?

 

Similarly, I recently encountered an individual handing out flyers for his "kuhrotty" school in the parking lot of Safeway who introduced himself as "Master ____." I found this to be rather incongruous, since I had always assumed that the term "Master" was a one-way form of address, not a personal title. The chap appeared to eb about my age (mid 30s) and I inquired about his training. He had apparently spent some time doing Kenpo, some time doing Jujitsu,a dn some time doing TKD. He claimed to haev begun training in his 20s, so it is doubtful he had truly "mastered" anything. To be fair, I haven't seen the man teach ( I denied any training in the martial arts, but did agree to visit his school for a free "introductory lesson"), but I ofund the lack of humility engendered by referring to oneself as "Master" so-and so to be somewhat off putting.

 

My curren instructors (A TKD 7 and a Shorinjiryu 8th dan) both refer to themselves as "teachers," and do not demand, or even accept being addrerssed as "Shihan" or "Master." They really only ask for "Sensei" or "Sir."

 

Has the term "Master" become merely an advertising tool? What has the plethora of "Masters" done to the credibility of the martial arts?

 

Interestingly enough, while websurfing not too terribly long ago I came across a school that has among its list of yudansha numers 5th dans and above who are all under 18, all of whom are accorded the title "Master." What does this say about the amrtial arts in general?

Edited September 23, 2002 by hobbitbob

[sk0t]

I think that "Master" should be a term that you are grandfathered into by your instructor...

 

In some arts (like you said) once you hit 4th or 5th dan you are considered a Master. I think that Master is a term for instructors who have been certified or 'grandfathered' into it...

 

And for some...I dont think that time limit can denote how someone is called a master... If I have done it for 10 years, and acquired my 4th dan...I am not a master...but if I have been teaching since 1st dan, and my instructor feels that I have acquired enough knowledge to call myself 'Master' then that is his right, and he can pass that on to me as he sees fit....

 

This quest to become master shouldnt be one that is taken hastily...because with the title Master, you will have a responsibility to know what you are doing and know what you are talking about...

 

Age has no bound when it comes to the martial arts...once you are above 15 (IMHO) I feel that you are old enough to learn what the martial arts has to teach...

 

This is not to say that under 15 should learn 'karate' because I think that 3 is a good age to start teaching life skills (teamwork, friendship, Paying attention)...

 

'Master', should not be taken lightly and unfortunatly it is!

[KickChick]

A first-degree black belt in TKD signifies that the holder of such rank is accomplished enough in the basics to begin serious training. Even second- and third-degree black belts signify only levels of skill in advanced training, not mastery.

 

In South Korea, you must possess a fourth-degree black belt to be considered an instructor, and you must have a fifth-degree black belt to be considered a master instructor in most American schools its 4th degree to be considered Master .... all it means is the instructor has mastered the style. Declared master status represents no elevation to demigod status. It does not mean learning stops. Masters are qualified to represent the style, teach it without limit, speak for it, and guide their own personal training in directions they wish to go. The use of the title "Master" is for formal occasions..."Sir" Ma,am" or "Sah Bum Nihm" is used for ordinary interaction. (that is in TKD .... most styles classify ranks differently)

[Red J]

Similarly, I recently encountered an individual handing out flyers for his "kuhrotty" school in the parking lot of Safeway who introduced himself as "Master ____." I found this to be rather incongruous, since I had always assumed that the term "Master" was a one-way form of address, not a personal title.

 

I wonder if he signs his checks "Master _____?"

 

The title, outside of the MA setting, seems a little much. I hope that he wasn't wearing a gi with tassles on it too, while he was sticking flyers under the windshield wipers. I don't know, maybe I'm just a little cynical with people who overuse their professional titles in other settings.

 

I have the same feeling about my peers that have PHDs that introduce themselves as Dr. somebody and then proceed to call you by your first name when you are at a party. Gimme a break!

[chh]

So what about the title Shihan? I've read that this title is given to 5th dans, but I got the impression it is not synonmous with 5th dan. If that's true, who awards the title, and what is the proper usage?? I was researching a dojo in a town a little ways from here, and noticed that the teachers appear to refer to themselves as Shihan . Prior to that I thought it was like what hobbitbob referred to as "a one-way form of a address."

[JerryLove]

I know I responded to this, but I don't see the post

 

Long and short, I'd personally like to see "master" assigned the way it is in all other trades (where you are a novice, apprentice, journeyman, or master). That said, "master" is commonly an anglicization of a foreign word, and we should look at the meaning of that word to determine when it is appropriate.

 

To use the common Chinese for example:

 

Sisook (IIRC) is more or less"big brother" and referrs to someone able to teach.

 

Sifu (IIRC) is some combination of "uncle" and "teacher" and refers to anyone with a body of students.

 

Sigung is more or less "grandfather" and referrs to a teach of a teacher.

 

In a purely English school, I find "master" rather presumptuous without an accredidation system; which I would like to see.

 

As to introducing one's self in a context of martial ars as "Master [last name]", it's just as appropriate (I would sumise) as introducing yourself as "doctor [last name]" in a medical or acedemic setting.

[LeaF]

I believe in Goju the title master is given to anyone who recieves their 8,9, or 10th dan. By that point in time I think they deserve that rank because it takes a life time to get that far

[G95champ]

I think the title is given to 5th dans in Shotokan. However I do not call anyone Master. That title is reserved for the all mighty.

[MonkeyNinja]

Maybe I see the subject of someone calling themselves as master, demeaning.

 

I don't call my instructor 4th dan. , master. Nor do or will I ever wish my students to call me as such. Even, if, by chance I do make it to such a level.

 

Personally, I think that such titles here in America feeds the ever growing ego of too many non-humble martial artists.

 

Just my opinion.

 

MonkeyNinja

[John G]

Assuming you started when you were 7 years old and maintained a formal training schedule at an AVERAGE of nine training sessions a month, every month this would be your progress;

 

First to third degrees (boo sa-bum) are considered novice

 

1st Degree/Dan 11.0 years old

 

2nd Degree/Dan 14.5 y/o

 

3rd Degree/Dan 17.5 y/o

 

Fourth to sixth degree (sa-bum) are considered expert

 

4th Degree/Dan 19.5 y/o

 

5th Degree/Dan 24.5 y/o

 

6th Degree/Dan 30.5 y/o

 

Seventh and eighth degree (sa-hyung) are considered masters

 

7th Degree/Dan 37.5 y/o

 

8th Degree/Dan 45.5 y/o

 

Ninth degree (sa-sung) is considered a grand master

 

9th Degree/Dan 54.5 y/o

 

With some exceptions to 1st degree, these are the minimum age requirements.

 

Gee, at this rate I'll be a minimum age of 82 when I reach grand master, the prime of my life (I'm planning to make at least 100).